But I think your response is another way to ignore the question-“I would tell you, but you would only ignore/attack me, so I won’t!”. Is the an actual answer to the question and if so, what is it?
But the question is “Why?”.
Are you seeing that in this thread? I see sadness, fear, and despondency more.
I don’t follow all the trump threads on the board.
It sure is!
Then you’ll be able to provide multiple cites for this more subtle, but constant, assertion?
Anyone I know that is successful, regardless or race or sex got there by doing one thing. Working there ass off.
On the other hand, a rich person that falls into money backasswards and continues to make bad choices just so he can stay in the limelight, is not successful.
My guess: they are either part of the community dominated by the beliefs of white macho guys (applies to a lot of women), or, they want to be (applies to a lot of young hispanic men). And there are the wealthy people who, far more accurately, believe trump to be on their side.
Let us never discount the effects of low intelligence and a narrow impoverished world view.
During the debate, didn’t Trump say that he would “make a deal” to end the war in Ukraine? It struck me that he was treating war with all the gravity of a real estate transaction.
That might be an interesting discussion, but seems to be a hijack here. It may also run afoul of the board’s topic ban on Men’s Rights Activism.
I’m not sure if this reflects a shortcoming of these boards, or simply reflects how some legitimate discussions are not possible given the current environment. On many social issues, this board has skewed increasingly far left, such that anyone not left of center is roundly criticized as evil, stupid, both, or worse.
Even attempts to discuss those “aliens” is met with simplistic responses that they are evil and stupid. Not the Dope at its best.
One other argument for Trump that came to me is that his last presidency was successful in reducing regulations and harming the bureaucracy. IMO, many folk criticize specific regs/bureaucracy which they find personally burdensome, while ignoring the countless aspects of bureaucracy which make their lives pleasant. Also, many wealthier folk are fine with reducing publicly provided services, because they can afford increased user fees.
He was making an argument, or at least a quasi-argument, for why some might lean toward Trump, offering as a given how whites and non-whites are treated and described. Not sure how exploring that would be a hijack.
But not a big deal, really. I’m not expecting any convincing evidence.
An honest argument for Trump is that, until March 2020, for many people life wasn’t that bad. Especially if you stayed in your own selfish bubble and avoided any media so you weren’t subjected to every horrible thing he said day after day after day.
What I see in this thread is that we people don’t understand why someone would vote for Trump. It makes no sense to us. And that is bad, because to beat your enemy (yes: enemy. Not mere political rival) you should know him.
Be this as it may, I have not read one single rational bona fide argument for voting for Trump so far. And I can’t come up with one either.
What do you mean? Say I am vehemently opposed to abortion. Or gay rights. Or immigration. Or environmental regulation. I could well believe a Trump administration would support those better than a Harris one. You may not agree with those choices (nor do I), but how can you declare that they are not bona fide arguments for someone who differs from you.
To the degree you think a trump admin will be a typical R admin, you (rhetorical you) could think that.
An honest assessment of what trump and his cronies say a trump administration will consist of and what policies it will pursue cannot possibly be honestly squared with the idea they’ll be a conventional R admin.
That’s the cognitive disconnect at the center of the non-MAGA R voter.
I not only don’t agree with those statements, I honestly don’t believe they are bona fide arguments. They don’t feel rational to me.
I may be wrong: perhaps they are. I admit I don’t understand how anybody would want to vote for Trump. Which, unfortunately, makes his victory more likely, I am afraid.
I’d like to grant that any number of Trump supporters may support any number of positions they believe he holds or any number of things they believe he accomplished.
But it’s exceedingly difficult, in my head, not to draw a parallel with a battered spouse:
- “He’s good to the children”
- “He’s an excellent provider”
- “He bought me a new Mercedes-Benz SUV for Christmas”
There’s a Stockholm Syndrome aspect to it that absolutely requires they never leave their information bubbles, like, just to simply understand what really happened on January 6th, and what the “alternate slate of electors” scheme was really about.
Or about 5,000 other things that conservative media simply didn’t and doesn’t cover, and that they blithely disregard as “fake news.”
But which inarguably isn’t fake.
There have been any number of comparable threads about “sincerely-held beliefs.” Like the targets of all demagogues, propagandists, charlatans, and con men throughout history, I have little doubt that the beliefs of Trump supporters are sincerely held.
More’s the pity.
I think you’re right. Posters can, and have in this tread, note the arguments for Trump that his supporters honestly believe. But the vast majority of posters on this board will find these arguments inherently dishonest, illegitimate or contrary to (their own perceived) reality. And then it’s just another pile on about how bad Trump is and how stupid it is to support him. Which I just find kind of boring.
I don’t know exactly what trump’s redeeming qualities are, but anybody who has two mega MAGA hotties like Laura Loomer and MTG fighting over him has got to have something going for him!
What I learned after decades in communications is that everybody looks at things through the issue of How does this affect Me? That’s a bit of an oversimplification, but not too much of one.
For a Trump voter it boils down to some combination of three basic factors.
I was doing better under Trump, so I’m going to vote for him
I’m for/against to issue X, and so is Trump
People say Trump is a crook, but all politicians are crooks, so it doesn’t much matter one way or another
If what Trump does helps you as well as me, that’s fine. If it hurts you but helps me, well that’s life.
Would dishonesty on our part be more exciting? If not, what would be? I mean, I hear there are honest and sincere discussions on the more right wing board, so what are they?