Assuming it really does put a govenrment bureaucrat between you and your doctor…
Let’s see… I could have a GS-something whose job it is to make sure doctors get paid; or I could have a non-accountable individual and a private corporation, both of whom would befefit financially if I died.
So I read the thread up to this point and responded. I hope that is ok…
Thanks for going into some detail with your answer, and may I ask you some more about this bit? Would you expand on the concept of people being reduced to subjects of the national government, please? And please explain how this is distinct from auto insurance.
Maybe. I’m occasionally paranoid, so if the CBO is gamed I will eventually want to know about it. I wish you’d wowed me with a jaw-dropping factoid or something, but I’m willing to give you another chance to come back with one since its so potentially juicy.
A big reason we are going bankrupt is health care. Medicaid & medicare cost state & federal governments $900+ billion a year. Other health plans add 100s of billions more.
Social security really isn’t a problem. Minor tweaks can keep the system solvent. But of the 70+ trillion in unfunded liabilities the US government has over 80% are health care related. Keeping social security solvent isn’t hard.
One of the major motivators of the bill was to try and bend the cost curve so the rate of medical inflation was slowed. In many ways we failed. Truly big methods of slowing cost growth (a public option tied to medicare, reimportation of drugs from foreign nations, medicare negotiations of medicine) were all cut from the final bill. But according to Atul Gawande over half the bill is designed to find ways to improve the efficiency of health care.
Cost is the most important thing about health care. If we were only spending 12% of GDP instead of 17%, we’d probably already have universal coverage since it would be so much cheaper.
According to the CBO this bill can cut the deficit by over 1.2 trillion over 20 years.
? How is this different than our current system. Private bureaucrats come between doctors and patients all the time. Medical independence is non-existent since doctors have to get permission from insurance companies to do treatments. Privacy doesn’t exist because once you file a claim your insurance company does an indepth background check to look for a reason to drop your coverage. Patient choice is a myth too since you are tied to your insurance companies choice of doctors.
What is medical freedom? And who is stopping you or anyone else from preventative care or looking for care outside the western allopathic system?
How do you know surgeries are needless?
The problem with that is the uninsured, when they do get sick, have their costs passed onto the insured. Of a $12,000 annual family premium, about $1100 goes to cover the uninsured. THey get sick then need expensive care, they can’t pay so the hospitals and doctors have to raise rates on everyone else. So you say ‘in a free society I should be allowed to take that risk’ but everyone with insurance has to pay an extra $1100 a year because when you do get sick, they have to pay your hospital bills.
You say you don’t need or want it. Now. But who knows what will happen. And again, if something does happen, other people have to pay the bills. What you are describing is privatizing the benefits and socializing the risks. If you stay healthy, you personally save money. If you get sick, everyone else has to pay extra for your care.
Why would a loaf of bread ever be $15? Is there some event on the horizon that will dramatically lower agricultural productivity?
Republicans are pissed off because the Democrats got a win that’ll boost their chances in November, significant parts of the bill (including costs) won’t kick in in time for protests/negative feedback to build up prior to the election, and many actually do think the bill is a mess that’ll be the start of a huge money pit and be hard to fix.
It is hard to believe the bill is provoking so much angst from people who seemed much less troubled by the prescription drug benefit.
Oh dear god.
Why, if you’re so healthy from eating properly, do you need to see alternative doctors, nutritionists and chiropractors? It does not compute.
As for your plan to avoid injury and illness, you can cut your risks somewhat by not partaking in dangerous activities, maintaining a healthy weight and exercising, but it’s delusional to think you can exempt yourself from genetics and the risks posed to you by others (for instance accidents, crime, and infectious disease).
Pretty much the same as the third. The fact is, insurance companies that make more money if you die before they pay out, will try to arrange for that to happen. No non-government solution can get around what is basic to the economics of the situation. Since the solution requires intervention by something that doesn’t care about the money, that means the government. That’s why pretty much everywhere else in the world, you have some kind of government mandated or run system; that’s the only system that works well, going by the evidence. And all our fetish for the magic free market won’t change that.
The Government doesn’t care about anyone but the political class. We’re just pawns to them.
“Not going to be surprised”? I’ll cut my own dick off and eat it with a nice chianti if they don’t.
Prove it. That is not consistent with the record. That’s just right wing government bashing.
I mean both sides. They’re in it for themselves. No one else.
Again, prove it. “Both sides are just as bad” is another right wing canard. They are so worthless, have so little to offer that their partisans are constantly forced to defend their behavior by pretending the Left is just as bad as the Right.
They are heartless! The extremism of the right poses as great of a threat to America and its populace today as any terrorist organization, some might call those maniacs terrorists themselves.
I must have missed the last big conservative push to ensure healthcare was available and affordable to everybody in the country, care to refresh my memory?
He had the chance to let it expire and he extends it.
Not to speak for Smiling Bandit but I can give you my take on it. We are now in a position where the federal government can dictate to us how we spend our own, private, after-tax money. And once government can dictate to you that you must spend your money in ways it sees fit rather than in ways you see fit, you have become a defacto subject of that government. In other words government is running you instead of the other way around, and this country was founded on the premise that the government be run by the people and not vice versa.
The most obvious difference is that auto insurance is optional. You don’t have to buy it unless you want to drive an automobile.
Check out the truth at Politifact.Com. I think that it will correct some of the misunderstandings that I see here – if people really want to know the objective facts.
Smiling Bandit, how is the new Health Care Plan similar to the plan that we had in Tennessee? Please be specific.
We are the national government. It is “of the people, by the people, for the people.” Those words by Lincoln mean something and they are in a specific order. Elected Representatives from all over the country made this decision in our interest. They followed the laws of our country. And unless the Supreme Court strikes it down as unConstitutional or untill other elected Representatives repeal it on our behalf, it is the law of the land and some of us really, really are proud of it. We like it.
And when has the national government ever not told us what to do with our “private” money? That is nothing new. If you choose never to set foot outside your state, so what? If you stand within the boundaries of one of the states, you also stand within the boundaries of a union of states.
I don’t remember what was promised, but it has made a tremendous difference in what my bills have been and I don’t find it expensive at all compared to what it saves me. It is much better than I had expected.
If you are seeking alternative treatments and using natural supplements now, there is no reason to think that you won’t be allowed to in the future. What has made you think that that will change? You won’t be forced to have surgery or take medications unless you have become in some way harmful to yourself and others. Have you been forced to take any medications or go to a doctor or a hospital in your present life?
Remember that more and more medical schools are including training in alternative medicine.
Also, the bill does contain some provision for preventative medicine, but I don’t know if that means just for tests or if it includes provision for well-being and exercise centers or not.
There is no way to get around the fact that all of us pay for insurance anyway. In all of the products that we buy, usually a portion of the price goes toward paying for an employee’s insurance.
When you take a risk that you might not need permanent care, you are also risking the lives of your parents, mates, children, brothers and sisters. You may never have known a quadriplegic, but I have and you just never know when it can happen. Who will pay for your care?
Actually I think you are just in it for your self.
I’d attribute this to me (a conservative) but I don’t think I’d provide the same label to “Republicans” I guess the bottom line is that their paths digress so much so that both sides see the other side as evil incarnate
All I know is that soon America will be on a more centrist path (probably provided by a libertarian base)
Lots of good points in this discussion (and not so much of the bashing, which at least reflects a more honest, grown up approach not mirrored nationally by what I can see). This is key though, here in the UK out of my c. $6000/month paycheck some $130/month goes on National Insurance - ie. tax for medical treatment. Last August I was diagnosed with Type 1 Diabetes, a rarity for someone in their 30s. In the last 6 months I have probably recouped the NI payments I’ve made personally over the last 3 years - and this is something that will cost the state for life. Now sure, I could have had my own private medical insurance, and private treatment, but to be honest I’m happy with the National Health System treatment I’ve received, and certainly happy that I can go to any pharmacy and get my insulin/testing strips/etc without fuss or bureaucratic intervention. I also get the add on benefits of free eyecare (not covered universally through the NHS system) amongst other things.
I’ve never felt the ‘burden’ of NI payments to be over the top and, now especially, recognise that it is absolutely vital for those who work to help support everyone in society. It’s certainly cheaper in the long run to support all those people with chronic illness who don’t work, or don’t have insurance, than to put up private insurance for all the others.
They’re not pissed. It’s just advantageous to appear that way.
The government has already been doing this to me my whole life. How have you escaped it?