Hello everyone, I am a second year college student at the University of Houston, and hope to one day be a geologist. My university however requires math all the way up to Calculus 3 and physics all the way up to physics 2. I am pretty dim in math (and in this case will even go so far as to just say plain terrible at it). I took Calculus 1 my first semester, so two semesters ago, and made a D in it. I plan to move ahead and take Calculus 2 as well, but I am somewhat apprehensive about it due to my past shortcomings. I can take it this summer at my local community college, but I really do understand that math is important in geology, especially Calculus and Physics, so I don’t want to short change myself by getting a community college Calculus 2 course, and then look like a fool when I (hopefully) get a career and dont know how to preform high level Calculus 2 problems. Anyways I am wondering if I were to be so unlucky as to make it through all 3 levels of Calculus with D’s is that an indication that I shouldn’t pursue Geology? I have a feeling that it will make more sense if the geological aspect is included in the mathematics, and am convinced that I am just not good at doing “pure” math if that makes sense. I really do want to be a geologist, but just how big of a factor is Calculus in the field? I want to work for NASA with my degree, but with my math experience would they even look at me? I have realistic goals if I decide to take Calculus next semester and not this summer, and just want a C out of it, but is that type of goal too low for someone wanting to become a geologist? How often and thoroughly is Calculus involved in Geology anyways? I understand there is software for Geologist, but just how many times a day can I expect to be pulled aside to solve a Calculus related problem? Is the real world geological application of Calculus much more related to my general Calculus classes, or is it more in tune with my higher level major courses? Am I worrying too much about Calculus? I feel that three courses in the grand span of an entire degree plan will come to have a moderate impact on coursework and professional practice at the most, or am I being naive? I cant stress enough guys I really do want to be a geologist, and even more so to work at NASA one day, it really has ALWAYS been my dream since the age of about 15, I just want to know am I in terrible shape as of now, and of so how can I better myself as well as my potential future outlooks? Thank you all for the help in advance!
Hi, and welcome to the Dope.
First off, unless you have a factual question, this will likely be moved to a different forum. If that happens, don’t fret; it’s just housekeeping.
There’s another way to overcome your deficiency. First, don’t rush. If you need to take a year or so fairly focused just on math, do it. It’ll pay off larger dividends in the long run–even if it makes the rest of college go that much more smoothly. Plus, if you end up with a higher overall GPA you’ll find it (marginally) easier to find employment, transfer schools, or get into the grad school of your choice. Also note many schools let you audit a class, which means that though you don’t get credit per se, you don’t have to worry about how it will affect your grades.
If that’s not an option, then build professors’ office hours and your schools math lab/tutor hours into your schedule. So you don’t just have Calc I on Mondays and Wednesdays from 11-12:30, but rather you have it M 11-12:30; M 2-4; W 11-12:30; R 1-2; F 10-11. It’s a large hit to free time, but incredibly worth it. Office hours and tutorials offer one-on-one help that is absurdly helpful and can make an extreme difference.
Source: High school dropout who never made it past Algebra II. Eventually earned an honors degree from Columbia with an econ major and an earth science minor–two math-heavy subjects. It can be done; it just takes a lot of focus.
Then would you think it would be a good idea to take Calculus 2 this summer, and perhaps audit the class during the upcoming semester? I never thought of doing so, but it seems like a very stable starting point from here on. Also would my D in Calculus 1 hinder me substantially in Calculus 2? I hear that Calculus 2 is the worst out of all three, and am pretty uneasy since my first run in with the subject resulted in a D. I guess what I want to ask is if I am ready per say. I’m a huge advocate in the fact that from the first day of class its impossible to be overwhelmed, and that its all just a matter of hanging on for dear life once the semester starts, which I think I can do, but am unsure for the most part because as stated before my previous D does make me feel a bit uneasy.
The two people best placed to answer the question are yourself and your professor (or a likely professor).
If you want to have an easier time with the classes (and also better grades, jobs, etc.), you’ll need to know why you didn’t do well. Had trouble with the core materials? Didn’t put in sufficient time on homework or figuring out the problems? Sloppy work? Difficulty understanding the lectures?
Then track down the (likely) professor teaching Calc 2 over the summer and ask about the course. Lay it all out, what you think you did wrong, what you’re doing to correct it, and ask for their advice. They’ll be able to ask you about basic concepts they’ll expect you to have and assess whether or not you’re well enough versed in them to do well in their course.
Personally, I had to repeat my first year university maths course. Didn’t affect my geology studies at all.
Not at all. We have computers for that kind of thing.
Unless you are otherwise a completely gifted geology prodigy, I’m afraid they likely won’t. NASA is in a position to choose the best of the best. So if there’s a guy out there who’s as good as you at Geology and he’s got A’s in math, you’re SOOL. But if you’ve published 10 papers on feldspar microstructures in complex fractionated ultramafic melts, and he hasn’t published jack, you’re the in-guy (assuming NASA needs igneous geologists, of course). And you can do that kind of work without so much as doing a quadratic equation yourself.
I can honestly say as a working mine geologist I never had to do any maths more complicated than standard sine-cosine-type geometry for working out bedding dips from borehole cores. And even that, it’s much handier just to use a Wulff Net…
I did use sampling statistics quite a bit, but the actual maths there is…arithmetic and algebra, really.
Depends on your speciality - but again, you’ll never be required to just know this stuff out of your head, ever. You can always look up the right formulae.
Yes.
Hi Char
Firstly a tip - don’t post a wall of text. I didn’t read it and doubt most others have bothered.
Secondly if your question framed in one big blast of words is indicative of how you learned to write at school, then you have been ill-served and will struggle at an academic level. Seriously - you must be able to write in a comprehensible way. Geologists have to prepare reports.
Thirdly consider finding a tutor for the maths. I’m sympathetic - studied geology and chemistry at school and would have liked to go further, but my maths was abysmal.
So I got a law degree. 
Even so I still enjoy geology and science.
This is better suited to IMHO rather than General Questions. Moved.
samclem, moderator
Not Calculus, but Accounting for me.
I took Accounting I my first semester and sat in the back of the class with a couple buddies. We would take turn taking notes while the others goofed, etc. Needless to say, I didn’t score very well in that class. I think a low C average.
Cut to my senior year and I have to take Accouting II to graduate. I’d been putting it off, but couldn’t any longer. Same professor and he remembered me, but couldn’t remember how long it had been. Told him I had to take it to graduate and he said “You know, Accouting II relies on a LOT of things you learn in Accounting I. This will be very hard for you!”. Anyway, I took a front seat in the class and really applied myself and ended up with a high A in that class!
Just apply yourself and it can happen.
I think calculus is more responsive to time spent working at it than almost any subject. Teaching high school, it amazes me how many kids I’ve seen who were utterly clueless at math eventually master calculus–but they all did so by spending a tremendous amount of time on it. Finding a good teacher–be it at the community college or university level–is important. Finding a good tutor is also a great idea. But really, it all comes down to time and effort and faith that they will pay off.
You are not dim at math. You are dim at studying. Learn to study and you will be able to learn math, or anything else for that matter.
Make use of all the resources available to you. You can ask questions in class, if the professor goes through something you don’t follow. Your professor has office hours, where you can ask questions outside of class. Even if you can’t make it to the scheduled office hours, you can probably e-mail them to set up another time. If your class has graduate TAs, they have office hours and can schedule times, too. Your school is likely to have a math learning center, staffed by professors, grad students, and/or upper level math majors, where you can walk in to ask a question at almost any time. Outside of your university, there are resources like Khan Academy and Mathworld. All of these are free, but if you can afford it, there are also private tutors for hire (though with all the free resources out there, you probably don’t need one). Make use of all of your resources, and ask plenty of questions, and it should be impossible to get a D.
Honestly asking - is this a legit premise? I would think that a Calc II would cover pretty much the same material whether taken at a community college or a 4 year university. If the class content varies significantly from school to school, then it becomes meaningless.
Calc I is not particularly difficult as far as college math goes. It does take a lot of effort/time/studying/practicing to master, though. If you didn’t achieve at least a B the first time around, I would recommend retaking it. Do all the practice problems in every chapter. Go to study sessions–my college had lots of those for Calc I, because it was something that ALL the engineering and science majors had to take. Go to every class and get to know your TA. Go to office hours if you are ever confused.
Even if you won’t use Calculus in your day-to-day job duties, that doesn’t mean you can get your degree without it. Unless you can find an accredited university that doesn’t require it, you’re stuck learning it.
OK, let me just check one thing here - a D is like 50-60%, right? Not a failing grade.
Echoing this. I was not the perfect college student, but my GPA would have been a lot higher if I had actually gone to all my classes and spent time studying and practicing instead of watching TV and playing video games.
Geologist here. As mentioned above, much of the calculating needs you’ll encounter in your average day to day responsibilities as a geologist are routinely carried out by the software applications you’re using; dips, fault throws, TVDSS, volumetrics, etc. You will need to be able to do some basic calculations yourself, often times in the field but they’re not rocket science, even for NASA folks, and just having a good grasp of geometry and being able to visualize structures and movement in 3D and apply formulas to measure and predict those accurately should suffice.
The thing is aside from how much you’ll need it professionally you still have to pass math and physics to even get your geology degree, or that of most any other scientific discipline. Are you sure science is really the right route for you? If so then knock them out first because if you’re unable to pass those then everything else you took may be for naught as far as completing a B. Sc. degree.
For the record, how are you doing in your geology classes? Also, again as mentioned above, how about in writing? You’ll need to share your observations and interpretations with team members and managers and the ability to write concisely and communicate effectively is equally important.
ETA: One more thing, to get a good job in geology you’ll need to stick around and get your M. Sc. too. The good thing is it’s all in your discipline, no more math.
Somewhat touching on what Mr. Dibble mentioned about the research papers and such: I don’t think NASA really hires many geologists outright these days in the same way they do engineers, physicists and astronomers. They certainly collaborate with them on research and probably sometimes hire them on as consultants, but it’s not like the days of Harrison Schmidt where they were sending them to the Moon.
With that in mind, your goal at this point should probably be getting into a grad school program at a school with a strong planetary geology/geophysics program or even just a professor who’s done work in that field. Doing research along those lines will maximize your chance of maybe getting an occasional gig at NASA and even if you don’t it’s still the same kind of science.
So with your current math conundrum, it might be a good strategy to try to identify some schools that would be good prospects for grad school and try to talk with someone within their geology department. Different departments will have different things they look at in terms of acceptance into a grad program; some might not really care too much about the classes outside your major at all, whereas others may really be expecting advanced classes and good grades.
I’d think for NASA we’d be talking PhD, at least.
I’ll see “Rachellelogram” 's repeat of Calc I, and raise her a pre-calculus course. Your problems with math go back further than where you hit the wall.
The benefit of math classes is less being able to do the calculations than being able to set up the problems. It’s a basic subject that you need to be solid in.
As is physics, both for chemistry, which underlies geology, and the geology itself. Strata all the way down! 
Without question but let’s at least get him into grad school first and we’ll see if NASA remains on the radar.