Tripple Crown Winners
Citation
Secreratiat
Seattle Slew
Affirmed
Talk to me about the strength of these horse’s competitors and the “times” (by clock) these horses won the Derby, the Belmont and the Preakness. How does American Pharoah stack up? Was this a con job to bolster the sport?
All of the horses in the Belmont Stakes today had already lost to the winner in (at least) either the Kentucky Derby or the Preakness Stakes. I see no reason to assume it was a fix.
I just heard (can’t corroborate this at the moment) that American Pharoah’s Belmont time was the second-fastest in the race’s history, behind only Secretariat. Make of that what you will.
When Secretariat won the Belmont in 1973 only four other horses ran with him - one of them the horse that had come in second in both the Derby and the Preakness that year. I get a vibe that the rest of the field just didn’t bother to show up.
Secretariat won by 31 lengths, set the fastest time ever, and when he crossed the finish line he was still accelerating.
Any horse capable of wining the Triple Crown is going to be flat-out amazing.
No, American Pharoah was not a “con job”. The only horse to run the Preakness faster was Secretariat. If anything, the field AP ran against was closer to his level as he won “only” by 5-6 lengths or so.
Like I said, any horse capable of winning the Triple Crown is going to be flat-out amazing.
Pharoah=2:26:55 Won by five lengths
Secretariat=2:24 Won by 31 lengths
Is there any information or modeling on how running with different amount of horses affects times? I’d assume that the more horses you run with the slower the time. If so, this might be more impressive than Secretariat?
Secretariat’s time for the Belmont is the still fastest ever run for that distance and he still holds records are nearly all the distances he was raced.
If this is a con job, why didn’t they do it sooner? There were several horses who won two legs before this.
Two many horses only affect time if you’re caught behind them, so it’s not a consistent effect. Secretariat went to the rail and the lead in the Belmont, and his only challenger, Sham, faded in the backstretch.
Right. And with only 4 other horses his chance of getting caught was smaller than if the race had a larger field.
How did today’s race play out?
My husband and I were just talking about that. I am inclined to judge the horses purely on time. Pharoah came within 3 seconds of Secretariat’s record. Damn impressive, but Secretariat is the objectively faster horse. He is inclined to say that since Pharoah has beaten more horses than any other Triple Crown winner since the 40s, that’s a more impressive accomplishment.
American Pharoah apparently did not get a good start out of the gate (based on what the announcer said at that moment), but very quickly went to the lead, and never gave the lead up.
Materiality stuck within a length of Pharoah for most of the race, but faded as they came out of the final turn. At about that point, Frosted made a push, and it looked, for a moment, like he’d challenge, but that’s when Pharoah pulled away.
RE: Secretariat’s Belmont - it wouldn’t have mattered if the other four horses had rollerskates and their jockeys got off and pushed.
American Pharoah’s Derby time was only middling but his Preakness was a solid win in the middle of the worst conditions I’ve ever seen. Today’s race was a classic. There really wasn’t anyone playing the front-running speed horse, so American Pharoah set the pace. It had a rather relaxed pace, with the horse not working too hard up front and the first half mile in a “sensible” time, as the announcer put it. If he came close to setting a record, it’s because he picked up his pace at the end.
I don’t think we can categorize Pharoah’s competition as particularly stiff. Frosted is no Alydar (Alydar always deserves an Honorable Mention with the Triple Crown winners, in by book.) Dortmund, who was my Derby pick and a contender, came up short. Pharaoh never really had anyone pushing him or setting paces that were uncomfortable. He got to set his own agenda (aside from the thunderstorm, which was legit ridiculous.)
But you know, that’s all part of the race. Sometimes the early speed doesn’t materialize. Sometimes the weather takes a dump on the track. Sometimes you don’t get a clean break from the gate. Sometimes you have to move early so you don’t get boxed in on the rail. That’s what the jockeys are for. They’re there to negotiate all these changing circumstances. But ultimately, it’s about who has the best horse in any given race.
Thirty-seven attempts at the Crown with six hundred horses. Big fields. Little fields. Front runners. Late runners. Sloppy. Fast. All different starting positions. It will probably be another thirty years before we see it again. We’ve had plenty of mopes running the Triple Crown and none of them could seal the deal. We’ve had some really great horses, too - Spectacular Bid, Swale, Sunday Silence, Big Brown - they couldn’t get it done either. I’ll always believe Barbaro could have done it, if it weren’t for his unlucky step.
If there was a better horse out there this year, there is no amount of money that anyone could pay his people to make them sit out. It’s just absurd to think it. If it was possible to game the system, we’d have a Triple Crown horse every year.
Six hundred horses have tried and failed to win the Triple Crown in the last 37 years. American Pharoah won his races fair and square under some genuinely trying conditions. He’s the real thing.
Well I guess I stand corrected. I dunno, I just wasn’t that thrilled with the race. Guess I’m getting to be an olde fart. Thanx All!
It was a great race! Finally after 37 years we have a Triple Crown winner!
An excellent point. Alydar belongs up there, but then again second place doesn’t count. But, boy! what a great rivalry that was!
ETA: from Wikipedia,
Ah, the Dan Marino of horses.
Not just a great rival - unique! Alydar is the only horse ever to finish the Triple Crown second in all three races to the actual Crown winner, Affirmed. He deserves a Mention for that. Their Belmont duel is still breathtaking to watch.
Yes, I just watched it. An amazing race!
I just finished this article, “The Killing of Alydar.”
http://www.texasmonthly.com/content/killing-alydar?fullpage=1
Alydar was murdered for the insurance payments.
https://www.google.com/search?q=alydar+murdered&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari
I don’t think any horse is comparable to Secretariat. When you watch that horse run, it is a think of beauty.
AP ran a great race yesterday, but he was still slower than Secretariat. Secretariat wasn’t challenged, and if he was, I suspect he would have run an ever faster Belmont.
A lot of things go into a teiple-crown winner. A talented horse is important, but luck also plays a role. I highly doubt, although I can never prove this, that AP wins the race yesterday if he started in the last position on the outside. Getting the 5 slot was helpful.
It is also helpful that he didn’t stumble, or get caught up in a pack.
I am not a horse racing fan by a long shot. But even I can appreciate a once in a lifetime creation like Secretariat. I think if he had a comparable horse, like Affirmed and Alydar, Secretariat would have run even faster in each race. He was never seriously pushed to run as fast as he possibly could.
Agreed. He is my favorite. His Kentucky Derby, he was accelerating throughout the entire race. His quarter mile times got successively shorter.