I completely agree with your approach. We would want a nonparametric model if we are going to assign individuals in the sample some kind of loser score. A loser-spline, perhaps. I am thinking that there will be serious endogeneity problems as well that will need to be corrected.
I left my loser-meter in my other suit of chainmail.
I feel absolutely no need to justify anything I do to anybody. I am willing to explain it to anyone who is genuinely curious about it. When I hear people spouting opinions based on incorrect, if common, perceptions I may try to correct their thinking, in the interest of fighting ignorance. Occasionally, as a result of this, I find myself obviously beating my head against a brick wall. At some point, which I recently reached on this topic with certain people, I come to the realization that even using a clue-by-four on them will accomplish nothing, and I abandon my efforts.
However, I reserve the right to continue pointing out that losers who insist on judging others by their own narrow standards are assholes.
“Re-creating” would probably be a better word. If there’s no written record of how Stonehenge was built, a guy who can go out in a field and lift thousands of tons of stone into place, by himself, using nothing but ropes, planks, and simple pivots is probably going to give you the best insight into how it was really done.
I dunno. I agree that he can give you insight into how it can be done, but this is different than how it really was done.
The fact that a man did this can refute a claim that building Stonehenge with primitive tools and materials is “impossible”, but offhand, I do not know anyone making that claim. It cannot prove that his way is how they actually did it.
I’ve never been to Pennsic, but it definitely looks like one of those events where the oddball is the norm! I can imagine that vampires and LARPers would be a bit of a culture clash, but then again I guess we could just sic the Tuchux on them–that oughta just about do it. 
I don’t understand Civil War reenactors, because they never actually refight the battles in slightly different ways to see how it might have gone if a few variables were changed. I asked about this once and got a horrified stare, guess that’s Just Not Done! At the event where we had the WWII guys, the SS uniforms were freaking some people out so we asked them to throw tunics over their uniform jackets and ditch the hats after a while and they were totally cool with that. Just good manners, really, since they were vacationing in OUR time period! Rigid, dogmatic types are a pain in the ass wherever you find them, really. Sturgeon’s Law applies to everything and everybody, y’know?
I did most of my playing in West Kingdom, where the whole SCA thing started, and I can assure you that there is a LOT of research going on in period weaponry and fighting techniques. Of course, like everything else, there are those who are very dedicated to doing things accurately and those who just want to have a good time hitting people with sticks. I live in An Tir these days and it’s a bit of a culture shock to me because periodicity is quite a bit more casual here than what I was used to. The SCA has always had the friction between the authenticity mavens and the fun mavens (I myself fall fairly squarely in the middle of the argument!) but over the course of forty years we’ve managed to find accomodations that keep disagreements to a minimum.
The big advantage the SCA has is that (like the SDMB “don’t be a jerk” rule–well, the theory is the same!) courtesy, chivalry and honor are the three qualities that we don’t allow to be eroded. I’ve never seen a disagreement blow up into a serious fight, and that’s quite an achievement considering the sheer amount of alcohol consumed at SCA events! If something goes amiss, bystanders will intervene, separate the combatants, go chill them out and if necessary they’ll mediate the dispute in some reasonable manner. I’ve seen incidences where domestic abuse occurred and the offending party ended up on the tourney field next day facing a champion who was angered by the abridgement of chivalry teaching a much needed lesson in courtesy to the offender. If necessary, reigning royalty is called in and the rulings have the force of law–this doesn’t happen often, most people prefer to settle things simply. We find that those who can’t manage to be courteous, honest and above board in their dealings tend to fall away after a while, pretty much on their own.
This is not to say that political infighting, rivalries, backbiting and factions don’t happen because of course they do. However, since one of the goals of the SCA is to recreate the entire medieval experience, methods of small-group conflict management are a large part of that recreation as well as arts, crafts and sciences. We tend to make really good booze, too…
At least in the circles my wife runs in, most of the play-acting geeks in the SCA events she attends ARE the credentialed historians–one of my best friends from college takes her vacation week from her postdoctoral research on Viking settlements to go to a major SCA event with her husband who’s a degreed historian on the Revolutionary war (working as a professional reenactor and museum curator up until they moved to be closer to her just-earned professorship). She’s apparently made some significant contributions to the general level of understanding in the SCA as to weaving techniques from her period of study. Admittedly, the husband is a dabbler in the medieval period by comparison, but the point stands.
I’d rather ask the credentialed historian who loves it so much they’re in the re-enactment scene as well. There are a LOT of them.
The quality of SCA fighting is grist for another mill. I do not really want to open those floodgates here, and I think everyone will appreciate it if I don’t.
But this really struck me:
This seems utterly contrary to my understanding of the SCA. SCAdians don’t want to recreate the medieval experience, but the medieval experience as they want it to be. There is no church, no peasants, no oppression, no disease, no nothing. It is a sanitized, family-friendly, politically correct vision of the Way The Middle Ages Ought To Have Been.
I find this very difficult to wrap my head around.
Well, see, that’s where the CREATIVE part comes in. The problem with things like religion and disease is that it’s pretty difficult to recreate them in any reasonable fashion. First off, since the period covered by the SCA is from roughly 450 AD (fall of Rome) to 1600 AD (end of Elizabeth I’s reign) and spans all of Europe with visitors from the other continents represented as well–which religion would we be talking here? Christian Catholic only? Athanasian or Arian? How about Greek Orthodox? Russian Orthodox? Odin or Thor? Islam? Protestant Reform Lutheran? English Reformed Church? Italian or French Pope? Should we recreate the Crusades every time we get some Middle East persona people interacting with Europeans? Pretty difficult to get things done and the parties would be nowhere near as fun. So instead, those who are interested in medieval religion study up on it and there are many people who have religious personas, monks, mendicant friars, nuns–I think we had a Cardinal once but that was an anomaly. I’ve heard plenty of verbal Crusades going on, as Islamic and Christian persona’ed people debate the relative historical merits of the various Crusades as well as the difference between the ostensible reasons they were waged versus the actual motives. Besides, what SCAdians are more interested in is how ordinary people lived their lives. What did they eat and how did they cook it? Can you bake bread over an open fire? What kind of clothes did they wear and how did the availabilty of materials dictate styles? Where did the trade routes go and how did that affect the lives of people–how available would luxury goods have been? How do you make shoes starting with nothing more than a dead cow? If cows were much smaller then (and they were) how did they piece leather bits together to make stuff? How did they grow their food? What crops were available? What was the role of women in various cultures? How was property acquired and passed on? The minutiae of everyday life is infinitely more engrossing, both to us and to the people back then I suspect, than the minutiae of theological opinion.
Really, the SCA is summed up quite accurately by its own description of itself–“The SCA is a non-profit medieval historical society dedicated to recreating the Middle Ages, not as they were but as they should have been.” We all know the horror stories–plague and starvation and the Children’s Crusade and the Medici popes and the Mongol invasion and the Inquisition and all the rest of it. That’s all fine and dandy–but really, how much did most of that stuff impinge on everyday life? With the exception of disease, the answer is “not a hell of a lot.” The SCA is probably more accurate than most people would think in that regard.
And there are plenty of peasants in the SCA. Anyone can choose a persona of any type they prefer. I myself am a Frankish peasant woman in my primary persona, although I tend to vacation in the Tudor/Elizabethan era in England because the clothes are so pretty. Sometimes I go Viking just for the fun of it. Shoot, sometimes I decide to have a male persona just for shits and grins–usually just for wars, though. From the standpoint of the SCA, though, everyone is assumed to be nobility unless or until they declare or show themselves to be otherwise. It’s just courtesy, really. There’s plenty of bullying and shoving people around for no reason IRL, we all know how it works and see no real reason to recreate it faithfully.
If it helps any, draw the distinction between reenactors, who are primarily interested in redoing something (a battle, a costume, a time period) right down to the last detail (good examples are Civil War and Dickens Fair participants) and recreators, who are more interested in the flavor and atmosphere of a given time period. SCAdians are the latter. Individuals may have a bewilderingly encyclopedic knowledge of some narrow skill, time period or craft but have little or no interest in other times, skills and crafts. The time period we cover is huge, the range of skills and interests is mindboggling and we’re not attempting to recreate a medieval Potemkin village for the edification or amusement or entertainment of anyone besides ourselves. The SCA is a place where you can overhear twelve year olds debating whether the shoes one of them is wearing are period accurate with the rest of their garb, and they will know what they’re talking about. That’s a success, in my book. The SCA is a place where you can find out a hell of a lot about history if you want to, or you can just go make a token effort at it and have a bunch of fun. Nobody’s judging, you get out of it what you put into it, and everybody has a slightly different set of needs and goals. That’s what makes it fun!
Never forget the all important part–anachronism. In the SCA we’re ALL out of our right time–not in the 21st century, but not in any other given century either. The 16th century French nobleman is camped next door to the Mongol warrior but who cares? As long as they both clean up their camp and have fun, who’s getting hurt? Food poisoning is perfectly period, but who the hell needs it? Just make sure the ice chests are out of sight and put your food in a nice wooden bowl or on a trencher. Getting hurt is period, too, but the chirurgeons are medically trained professionals IRL, chain mail coifs make the best neck stabilizers possible and we know how to clear a path for an ambulance. We love to dance but there isn’t always a handy batch of live musicians available–so we just politely assume the music is coming from a group playing behind a curtain somewhere that just so happens to have a “replay” option.
Society. Creative. Anachronism. Kinda says it all, doesn’t it? 
You… don’t really write on people’s feet?
As far as the SCA stuff, yep. Word. All that. Many of our Laurels – that’s the people recognized as being Really Good in some sort of SCA-period art or science – are published authors in their field. The serious customers don’t just throw on a horned helmet and pretend to be Vikings. They study archaeological finds, right down to the fiber content, the probable dyes, the tension and method of spinning the thread, and the weave of the fabric. I’ve seen a few pairs of socks that start with the sheep. I’ve seen a beautiful and spot-on tapestry stylistically following the Bayeux depicting the selection of our last Baron (kind of a semi-administrative, mostly ceremonial head of a largeish group of reenactors. Larger cities tend to have Baronies if they have large SCA populations).
My favorite university professor is also a member. She teaches in the Scandinavian Studies department at the University of Texas. The last course I took with her was in early Scandinavian dance at an event in February. She goes to Denmark and the like pretty regularly and tends to know rather more about the history than the tour guides.
As far as SCA fighters? I’m not going to go there, except for two snippets: first, they’ve been recruited to teach police departments (some Mounties in Ontario, IIRC, but in other places too) how to hold a shield line with riot shields and batons. Bashing each other in that very manner is what SCAdians do for fun. Also, our local rapier fighting group (light SCA fighting can be described with fair accuracy as full-contact fencing) uses 16th and 17th century training texts by Degrassi and Capo Ferro in teaching people, as best as they can, how to fight duels as they were fought in period. Minus all the blood and guts, of course. One of our local fellows had a fascinating demonstration at a recent practice session of just how easy it is to cut through human beings with a sword.
There’s surely a lot of people who don’t take the whole historical bent all that seriously. They make clothes that look pretty to 20th century eyes out of polyester and broadcloth. They go to costumed events with Coke cans and air conditioners. They are still welcomed out of a general desire to include people and have fun. They aren’t actually the majority, though, which is what I find kind of intriguing about the SCA, and frequently they don’t stay long or go to the Renfest circuit instead.
The organization itself is not Serious Business, though. Everyone takes it all with a big dollop of salt – nobody outside of the real lunatic fringe thinks they’re the spiritual descendant of Queen Elizabeth, we sing really silly songs, and we realize we’re prancing around with sticks and capes and silly accents pretending to be Vikings. We’re generally all right with that.
I don’t give half a shit what you do or don’t do. Your significance in my life is infinitesimal. I just hope, for your sake, that someday you care so little about me. I’ll only break your heart otherwise.
And all of your friends from the Shire will be here shortly to back you up, I’m sure. For the record, I’m not here to judge you.
I find it puzzling that you think these two groups are mutually exclusive. Who do you think finds the 14th century (or whichever) fascinating enough to thoroughly research the life of the average [archer/king/page/etc.] in that time period and act it out? If you found out your favorite history professor went to Ren Faires, would your head spin so hard it would pop off?
I’d give a week’s pay to see that.
Ok, he’ll do it, as long as you are not a loser. Cos losers are only there to be laughed at, they are not allowed to do the laughing. Well not at really cool people.
Don’t flatter yourself. I’m only addressing you now because you keep responding to my posts. I’ve got an excuse, what’s yours?
I wonder what he thinks of Professor Tolkien himself. Sheesh, what a tool.
Yeah, dude actually put Beren and Luthien on his and his wife’s tombstones.
What a dork. :rolleyes:
There may be some overlap, but I doubt that average Ren Faire goer has a history degree. I’m sure I can learn more from a wiki search than I can from watching some man-child in a Halloween costume playing with a fake sword and saying “forsooth.”
At least Tolkien didn’t wear costumes.
Have you ever once in your life thought, “You know, I don’t really know what the fuck I’m talking about. Maybe I should just shut up?”
This may be a sensitive subject, but, um… was your father killed by the word “forsooth”, by any chance?
I spend much of my life with professional historians, people who have PhDs in the subject and who teach history at colleges and universities.
While i don’t claim that my experience is necessarily universal, or even typical, i can say that none of my historian friends (to my knowledge) participate in Ren Faires. Not only that, but many of them find the whole idea of historical pageantry (whether it’s renaissance or Civil War re-enactment) amusing and rather silly.
I’m not arguing that people who participate in this stuff don’t know anything about history, nor that you need to have a PhD to read and understand historical material. But in many cases, the type of historical accuracy most prized by the re-enactor and the pageant-goer is the surface stuff—whether the buttons are sewn on right, or whether the weapons and the clothing are made of the right materials. There is, in many cases, less concern with the sort of change-over-time analysis that tends to occupy the time and the research energy of the professional historian.