They are allowed to own a gun to go hunting, just not a semi-automatic rifle, which is a feature generally not required for hunting.
Does the bill mention possession or is it just about buying from a licensed dealer? If it still allows for possession and buying from a private party or having one gifted, then this bill is ridiculous. Not that I agree with raising the age in the first place.
I don’t know.
Why do you not agree with raising the age?
naw. Any little roadblock between an enraged teen and a gun is a win. Maybe it wouldn’t have stopped this kid. But some other kid will go and try to buy a semiautomatic and decide to settle for something that doesn’t fire as rapidly. And then he’ll go to another school, and only murder three kids before someone takes him down. That’s a win for the other kids he didn’t murder, and their families and friends.
I am against raising the age. I see it as an infringement on their rights.
Why do you see it as an infringement on their rights? They’re not being prohibited from owning a firearm. Do you believe the prohibition on sales of handguns to those under 21 is an infringement? Do you think the prohibition on sales of alcohol to those under 21 is an infringement? Are my rights being infringed upon because I can’t go out and buy some cocaine for my personal use?
Underage drinking is a big no no in the military. I’m sure it happens, but its not a slap on the wrist if you get caught
Really? It was a slap on the wrist when I was in, but that was the 80s and the Navy. So I’m sure much has changed.
That is of course, if they have a particular target they are trying to hit, rather than just firing into a group of students.
There are plenty of things an 18-year-old cannot do, including plenty of weapons that are completely illegal for them to own. You cannot credibly hold this “infringement of rights” mantra out there as though it’s some expression of natural law. The burden is on you to justify why it’s appropriate to grant an 18-year-old the right to buy this kind of weapon. And to explain why that trumps the rights of everyone in society to be (somewhat) protected from angry adolescents so armed.
I’m okay with infringing their rights. The problems we have today supersede their rights.
True, it really should include closing the private sale loophole as well.
As long as that loophole is in place restrictions won’t help, as even an FFL can get around it by selling from their “private collection.”
I anticipate this bill has no chance of passing the senate, but instead, the Republicans will offer up a “compromise” that will require one to be 21 years old in order to purchase a howitzer.
Historically, 21 has been the age a majority. I don’t see any reason rights shpuld always kick in at 18.
Civilians are effectively banned from owning howitzers under the National Firearms Act of 1934, just as they are effectively banned from owning machine guns and short-barrelled rifles. You can own one if you jump through all of the hoops, and if you live in a state that allows it; but practically speaking, you can’t have one.
Don’t leave us hanging. Can you elaborate where and under what circumstances you can own a howitzer?
Here’s an answer on quora [emphasis mine]:
It isn’t easy, cheap, or quick, but yes, a private US citizen can own a 105mm howitzer in most states.
The howitzer is classified as a “Destructive Device” which requires a background check which takes about a year to complete, and paying a $200 tax for the transfer (plus, of course, whatever the howitzer itself costs). Each round of explosive ammunition for the howitzer is also a “Destructive Device” subject to the same paperwork, same background check that takes a year each time, and the same $200 tax per round. You also have to notify the Chief Law Enforcement Officer where you live each time you apply to transfer the howitzer or each round of ammunition.
You can’t buy the howitzer from the US military because they are required to destroy all weapons that aren’t needed unless they are sold or given to a foreign military. So you have to find someone who already has one. Most are old model guns literally left over from WWII or before. If the howitzer is outside the US, you have to separately apply for permission to import it.
The alternative would be to find an old howitzer that had been “demilitarized” and was owned by some museum, VFW Post, or other institution. To make it into a functional howitzer you would have to apply for permission to “make” a “destructive device,” go through the same background check as for buying one, and pay the “making” tax instead of the “transfer” tax. — Making a “demilitarized” howitzer functional won’t be easy. Exactly how it was “demilitarized” will depend on when it was done, but generally involved at least cutting the barrel and welding the breech closed. You will probably need to find or fabricate a new barrel, and some or all of the breech mechanism.
But if you pass the background checks, pay the tax, and live in a state that doesn’t prohibit civilians from owning destructive devices, then yes it is perfectly legal.
Oh, by the way, you also have to request permission from the federal government if you ever want to take it across any state line. And if you ever choose to sell or give it to someone else, they also have to go through all the paperwork, background check, and pay the transfer tax.
While I appreciate the irony, the logic doesn’t actually follow. Should a soldier from a tank crew necessarily have the right to go duck hunting in a tank?
An 18 year old soldier is likely of low rank and we are not relying on them to show maturity. It doesn’t necessarily mean we can trust them to own a rapid firing weapon in a civilian context.
Do you own any class 3? What about making all center fire semi auto rifles class 3?
No, I don’t have any Class 3. While I would easily pass the investigation (I suspect it would be less in-depth than the one for my last DoD clearance), Class 3 firearms are hellishly expensive since the ban on new manufacture in 1986. Even if I wanted to buy one, feeding it is also expensive. Consider 5.56 mm. I haven’t bought any recently, but I think it costs about 50¢ per round. That’s ten bucks for a 20-rd. magazine, that you’d burn through in a few seconds. Also, Class 3 firearms are prohibited in this state. I have no desire to own one.
I would not want to make all centerfire semi-automatic rifles Class 3. That would be burdensome, and there are many other steps that can be taken to reduce gun violence.
FWIW, I came into the thread to post that I didn’t see any reason to discriminate against 18-year-olds versus 21-year-olds, but I have been convinced by the arguments to the contrary (particularly the points that 21-year-olds will have public criminal records, where applicable, and that soldiers carry firearms under supervision).