The new proposed ban on "assault weapons"

In the wake of the massacre in Newtown, Senator Feinstein of Califorinia has introduced a bill that would permanently ban new sales of “assault weapons”. (Existing weapons would be “grandfathered” but would be subject to some restrictions such as storage requirements and background checks.) Details can be found on her webpage, including a link to the text of the bil (PDF file). (I know, just what we need: Another thread about guns. But I saw some threads–in the Pit, mainly–where some posters were being asked about what sort of gun control measures they thought would be reasonable, and replying that they’d have to see what was actually proposed. Well, the bill has been submitted, and we citizens can look it over and decide for ourselves now.)

There are several gun control proposals floating around right now: universal background checks (“closing the gun show loophole”); restrictions on magazine capacity; and this ban on “assault weapons”.

I’d like to leave universal background checks and restrictions on magazine capacity for other threads, and focus on the ban on “assault weapons” as defined in the bill (although the bill does include magazine capacity restrictions as well).

The bill defines assault weapons as follows:

The bill also includes some helpful definitions:

There is also a list of specific makes and models of weapons which are restricted by name (and, somewhat curiously, a list of specific makes and models which are explicitly declared to not be banned or restricted).

Would anybody care to defend the “assault weapon” style of gun control? (Defined here as restrictions on what the Senator refers to as “military-style” weapons, but leaving “high-capacity ammunition feeding devices” for another debate.)

Personally, I don’t think the “assault weapons” approach makes any sense at all. (Nor did the similar Clinton-era law.) Looking at the list of defining characteristics, it really does come down to questions of “style” not functionality. This is not a restriction on some particularly dangerous caliber, like, say, weapons that fire explosive shells, or particular mode of operation–all of the weapons discussed in this law are semi-automatic weapons, not “machine guns” (which are heavily restricted by other laws), but the bill is not a ban on semi-automatic firearms in general, a bunch of which are specifically named as being OK.

More specifically as to calibers and modes of operation: A bunch of AR-15 type rifles are named as “assault weapons”, while the venerable M1 Garand is included on the list as one of the nice guns that aren’t being banned or restricted. The AR-15, of course, looks like something you’d hunt xenomorphs with, while the M1 Garand looks positively cuddly by comparison. But functionally, both are semi-automatic rifles–once a round has been chambered, they will fire once each time you pull the trigger until the gun’s magazine is empty. The AR-15 generally fires .223 Remington or the very similar 5.56×45mm NATO, while the Garand fires the famous “thirty-aught-six” (.30-06). Here’s a pictorial comparison of the two cartridges side-by-side. The .223 and .30-06 are the two rifle cartridges in the middle (the pointy ones between the short and stubby .45 pistol cartridge on the left and the shotgun shell on the right). Note that the .223, strongly associated with “assault weapons”, is considerably smaller than the .30-06, which is strongly associated with friendly-looking guns with wooden stocks. (Although neither cartridge, or any cartridge, would in and of itself be banned or restricted by the law.)

Why should we as a society care if someone’s semi-automatic rifle has a “barrel shroud”? Or a folding stock? (It “enhances concealability”, but the law does nothing to restrict ordinary handguns–the semi-automatic pistols specifically defined as “assault weapons”, having features like a second pistol grip or a magazine that inserts outside the pistol grip, are probably as a rule going to be bulkier and less concealable than garden-variety handguns.) Or if someone’s rifle has a pistol grip or a “forward grip” or thumbhole stock on it? And “grenade launchers” are not actually grenades–“grenade[s], rocket[s], or other similar destructive device[s]” are already heavily restricted (read: basically outlawed) by other laws. Threaded barrels allow for the attachment of flash suppressors (again–why do we as a society care about those?) or silencers (which are already heavily-restricted by the aforementioned National Firearms Act). What does it matter if a pistol has a second grip or if the magazine is inserted outside the pistol grip?

I should add that–in no small part from reading debates about gun control on these boards over the years–I’m generally in favor of gun rights and against gun control. I could probably be persuaded to accept, say, universal background checks. But laws against “assault weapons” strike me as fundamentally irrational, pointless, and quite probably in bad faith. (From the Violence Policy Center–a pro-gun-control group“[assault] weapons’ menacing looks, coupled with the public’s confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons” and the group’s real goal is actually a ban on handguns, not any sort of rifle.) And proposals for new restrictions on guns that are ill-informed, just plain don’t make any sense, or are really stalking horses for potentially sweeping bans on entirely different categories of weapons are at least part of the reason why many gun rights supporters are so skeptical about seemingly sensible laws like universal background checks.

Hah! So, under this proposed law, this Ruger 10/22 is a banned assault weapon. You just can’t make this stuff up.

This proposal was predictable, but it’s still unpleasant to see it arrive. It’s as onerous as it is useless. I’m contacting my congresscritters to let them know where I stand. I hope we can shoot it down, if you’ll pardon the pun.

One doesn’t have to be anti gun control to see that the proposed bill is fairly meaningless.

  1. As the OP points out, the bill categorizes firearms based on their appearance rather than their function. One could still obtain a semiautomatic rifle legally under the ban, just not a semiautomatic rifle with a pistol grip. Pretty pointless.

  2. Pistols are used in far more crimes than rifles. Generally criminals prefer guns that are cheap and concealable, not expensive and conspicuous. It would be more logical to let people keep selling AR-15s and attempt to ban the sale of pistols. Not that I necessarily support such a law, I just think it would make more sense than the assault weapons ban.

The only aspect of the proposed ban that isn’t completely ridiculous is the attempt to limit high capacity magazines. Once again, I’m not necessarily saying that I would support such an attempt, but I can understand why one would think that was a good idea. I have a hard time understanding why one would have a problem with barrel shrouds, other than that I guess people think they look scary.

Can you explain what advantages are obtained by using a gun with any of the features on the proposed list? I ask not because I think you have some duty to justify the choice to me or the government, but because I’m honestly curious. I haven’t used firearms enough to understand why one would desire a forward grip, or threaded barrel, for example.

ETA: I’m not voicing support for the AWB or arguing for its passage.

A forward grip is an ergonomic feature; it can make the gun more comfortable to hold, and the added stability helps improve long-range accuracy when you’re not firing prone or from some other position where you have the gun rested. A rear pistol grip enables a more comfortable and less straining hold for firing from the shoulder. Similarly, a collapsible stock enables some flexibility in the way you hold the rifle; it also allows adjusting the rifle for larger or smaller shooters.

A threaded barrel allows you to attach accessories to the business end. This might be a sound suppressor, or a flash hider other than the one that came standard on the rifle.

A “barrel shroud” is just a piece of material that goes over the barrel so you can hold the gun without burning yourself. The proposed AWB doesn’t count parts of the stock that don’t entirely surround the barrel. Why it makes this distinction is beyond me.

I suppose one can argue that it theoretically makes sense as part of a long term strategy of picking away at guns until one can bit by bit impose more meaningful gun control. Not that I think the Democrats have either the long term planning or determination to do any such thing.

It would be politically impossible, despite making more sense. When you get right down to it, the pro-gun side is both politically very powerful and completely beyond either reason or compromise, so any sort of actual rational regulation is simply impossible. They are largely composed of shrieking lunatics who think the government is coming at any moment to kill them all, and that they can fight off the US military with hand weapons; you aren’t going to get a reasonable compromise, or any compromise from loonies like that.

Well, if you want to talk about shooting yourself in the foot, it doesn’t seem very wise to me to spend your political capital on a completely ineffective measure that will galvanize your opposition and drive the moderates who would otherwise be happy to compromise with you into the arms of the extremists.

But, then, when you’re an extremist yourself, you won’t be satisfied with any compromise that isn’t a full concession, so naturally everyone who disagrees with you can safely be lumped into the shrieking lunatic category. Another sound political strategy.

Of course, if someone on the pro-gun side analyzes an assault weapons ban this way, he will be called a paranoid gun nut…

Ah, yes, there’s always the disorganization of the Democratic Party to save us all! (Kind of hard on us pro-gun-rights people who actually agree with the Democrats the other 90% of the time.)

And he would be paranoid; the Democrats are as threatening as a chipmunk facing off against a steamroller. It takes paranoia to be so terrified by such ineffectual people.

As with all these proposals, time for me to send *another *check to the NRA (second time this year… and it’s still January :)).

I read the bill, but just scanned over the list of guns Ms Feinstein likes at the bottom. I’m curious why the SKS remains acceptable. Are bayonets not scary anymore?

During the Clinton years, we easily got around the pistol-grip idiocy by buying with thumbhole stocks, and swapping with aftermarket parts. Unless I’m misunderstanding it, this would still be a legal method to thwart this bill. (Or am I missing something?)

I’m curious about the storage requirements in Sec. 5. Does that mean I wouldn’t be able to loan an AR-15 to my kid to take to the range? If I’m interpreting it correctly, I’d have to accompany him to the range and give it to him there.

Hopefully the NRA can make supporting this a career-ending move for congressmen. It will be interesting to watch.

Thanks, very informative!

Have any sponsors or supporters of the AWB provided rationale for targeting these features?

The post upthread is probably the closest the antis will ever come to publicly admitting that the “assault weapons ban” is mainly just an incremental step in their slippery slope strategy.

For one thing, an typical SKS-45 (speaking for ex-military versions, not the civilian clones) has a relatively modest 10 round fixed magazine.

And yet, whenever we pro-gun types point out the obviousness of this “camel’s nose under the tent” strategy, we’re called paranoid gun nuts.

The irony, it burns.

To be fair to Der Trihs, I think he was speaking hypothetically and not actually advocating that position, but I’ll let him speak for himself.

Looks someone watched a bunch of 80’s action movies starring Arnold Schwarzenegger to make up that list. Where’s the phased plasma rifle in 40 watt range :D.

I don’t read his drivel in GD or The Pit. I may look it over in CS, IMHO, and MPSIMS. I read the part ME quoted in his reply.

That “slippery slope” that everybody swears up and down doesn’t exist.

According to Feinstein’s summary, the bill bans “bullet buttons,” thumbhole stocks, and slide fire stocks. Slide fire stocks are on page 3. Thumbhole stocks are included in the definition of “pistol grip” on page 13 and “bullet buttons” would be covered by the definition of “detachable magazine” on page 12.

How could there be a rationale for banning something that the bill itself says “protects the user of the firearm from heat generated by the barrel”? They want gun owners to burn their fingers. That’s nothing but spiteful.

Ummm … not really: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blXkl9YVoHo

P.S. I hate the opening description “… to ensure that the right to keep and bear
arms is not unlimited …”. Yes, Dianne, we’re aware: NFA, GCA '68, FOPA’s Hughes Amendment, etc.

I can only see one way this bill might be politically valuable for the Democrats. They propose something so unacceptable and doomed to failure, that maybe they believe they will be able to get things like universal background checks passed as a compromise. That might even be the strategy, if it is, good job. But if it isn’t, Feinstein is an idiot who is doing nothing to control the gun violence problem in this country.

Universal background checks would be a good first step in my proposed “owner regulation” oriented model of gun control, which models effective gun control systems in other countries with vastly lower gun violence.

But the problem with this strategy, if it is such a strategy, is it may galvanize the opposition, and it gets more people active in pro-gun rights activities and boosts the coffers of the NRA. [Which is an extremely effective lobbying group, there has been a narrative since their campaign contributions didn’t amount to much they are toothless, but the most the NRA ever spends on campaigns is around 20% during election years, most of their money is spent on lobbying legislators at the State level to pass more liberal gun laws. Since most actual gun legislation that passes in this country happens on the State level, this has had a huge impact on American gun laws and shouldn’t be underestimated or ignored just because you dislike the NRA.]