While they violated diplomatic immunity, I’m inclined to give the cops a pass on this. The guy after all was driving around without plates, they saw him slip into some random parking garage and had no way of knowing he was a diplomat.
And I don’t know how well the Chinese consulate there is marked. Some of them are easy to spot, like the Mexican consulate which has a big flag out front and the words “Consulado de Mexico” in big letters on the side of the building. Many others in Houston, though, are pretty discrete, and unless you were to walk right up to them you would never guess they were anything other than a typical office building.
The police were also alleged to have beaten and injured the consular official. If this is true, this is seriously stupid on their part. If it’s true, I suggest that they be extradited to China, to suffer whatever penalty is involved for assaulting and injuring a Chinese government official.
I have no idea. However, U.S. law seems to extend to attacks on U.S. military in places like Iraq, at least to the extent of getting an indefinite detention in Guantanamo. If some thugs attacked a U.S official in the U.S. consulate in Shanghai, I’m sure that there’d be a U.S. federal law to deal with it as a crime. Why not a reciprocal law?
The consulate is technically Chinese territory so yes Chinese law should have some jurisdiction.
I suspect that diplomats on both sides are burning up the phone lines trying to figure out how to deal with it so neither country looks weak to it’s citizens.
So from my reading of the article: the cops try to stop a car with no plates (and, most importantly, no diplomatic plates). The car does not stop. The cops pursued the vehicle just like they pursue anyone who fails to stop. And in the process, the cops’ lives were put into danger, the public was put into danger, and even the Chinese diplomat was put into danger.
I don’t know about the beating part. I’d sure like to see security video or some sort of witness testimony other than the statement from the Chinese ministry. Sometimes people who try to evade police and have to be pursued are not necessarily going to feel like they were handled gingerly when they were taken into custody. Doesn’t make it police brutality.
Here’s what I’d do: Apologize to China. And then PNG the diplomat for being an idiot and endangering people.
The diplomat is above the police authority. What did the police do to this diplomat? - that would be a great indication of how the police use the authority they use over others they are suppose to serve. Let this be a eye opener for the public, one way or another if the authority that the police is given is warranted or should we seek out other ways.
Is there any evidence from the article that anyone was put in danger? (Apart from the danger caused by the arrest methods of the police concerned.)
Sure thing. And China will retaliate by declaring half-a-dozen random consular officials in China persona non grata. That really does improve Chinese-American relations.
Sure, the article says, “Houston police tried to stop a car that was missing a license plate, CBS News reported. When the car didn’t stop, they pursued it into a garage.” (bolding mine) The vehicle did not stop. The police pursued it. Pursuits are dangerous for everyone involved. And, as you mentioned, when a car drives away from police, and they finally get it stopped, they don’t walk up to the driver’s side window and say, “license, registration, and insurance please.” Guns, handcuffs, and lots of cops are involved.
So… we want to send the message that what? Diplomats who don’t want to get stopped should start up a police pursuit? Particularly when they can just stop, waive their diplomatic credentials, and go about their business.
As for concerns about improving Chinese-American relations, I did say we should apologize for violating their sovereignty. I certainly think the police screwed up by pursuing him into the consulate. But I’m just much more inclined to blame the idiot diplomat that caused the whole thing by refusing to pull over.
The pursuit may have been at normal street speeds. The Chinese man, conscious of his diplomatic immunity, just ignoring the police car following him with siren and flashing lights, and driving at a safe speed into the consulate.
No, the Consulate is not technically Chinese territory. Neither are Embassies. The Vienna Convention specifies laws from which Diplomats enjoy usual protection, and local officials usually require permission to enter the premises, but the mission environs remain under the jurisdiction of the host country.
True, true. And, as he radios in this innocuous and completely safe pursuit, what are his fellow cops doing? Rolling lights and sirens, disregarding all normal traffic regulations, and generally busting their ass to come to his assistance. That’s not to mention what’s going on with the pursuing cop: elevated heart rate, hyperfocus, possible tunnel vision. Not the ideal state to be driving in. Bottom line: police pursuits are dangerous. You think we need more facts such as: school children in the street, 100+ mph speeds, winding roads, heavy traffic, construction, etc. I think once someone has failed to stop and the police have initiated a pursuit, that’s all you really need to know. It’s dangerous. Not necessarily so dangerous that you need to terminate the pursuit or that you need to take away the ability of the police to pursue, but it’s dangerous.
Do I want more facts before I make snap judgments? Sure, that article is almost completely devoid of facts. There has to be a police report out there that I’m sure will surface eventually and provide more information. But my gut reaction to this article is this: if you think that your diplomatic immunity gives you the right to initiate a police pursuit (and I would argue endanger the lives of the public and the police), then get the hell out of my country. If it makes Chinese-American relations a bit frosty for a little while, so be it. I don’t see that as a real extremist position either, but YMMV.
And before you think I’m completely irrational, let me say this: If the evidence eventually shows that the cops actually beat the guy as the Chinese ministry claims, then fire their ass. I’m just a little more focused on what I see as the proximate cause of this whole thing: the Chinese diplomat, not diplaying diplomatic tags, failing to stop for police.
Now, I don’t really want to hijack the beejeezus out of this MPSIMS thread with all the police pursuity goodness (unless everybody does), so you let me know where you want to go with this.
Not sure what Houston’s policy is… but my Dept has a no-chase policy right now. If it’s a minor traffic violation we are told to let it go. It sucks and guys gripe about it all the time… but if some asshat starts going 85 done a residential street because his license is suspended… i can’t put the public in danger for that. Essentially as a buddy of mine says “you’re chasing probation”. I would like to know more about these “injuries”. Frequently when people are handcuffed they usually claim some sort of wrist or hand bruising etc… The PD probably should have kept the driver in his car, and ascertained who he was and ran the vin on the vehicle. If they acted within guidelines then it should be no harm no foul.
