Exactly! Discovering that you aren’t the correct political persuasion to fight fascists must be as mind-blowing as it is mind-numbing.
? again.
I’m sorry, I’m just not understanding you in this conversation, doubtless my own fault. 'Splain like I’m five?
Good job spotting my point! Progressives told you over and over that she was a fatally flawed candidate. You guys ran her anyway, and she lost, and now you’re butthurt at progressives for being right about your shitty candidate.
Maybe if you’d united behind a decent candidate in the primaries - you know, someone who could have won over those “independent voters” that went for Trump in 2016 - we’d still have abortion rights in this country. Buy y’all wanted Hillary instead.
His experiences during the Spanish Civil War where the anti-fascists spent more time trying to get rid each other than they did trying to kill fascists.
I see, right, thank you! My point exactly!
(Re-reading, I see that my mistake was not noticing that your observation about Orwell was generally in agreement with what I was saying, I kept trying to understand it as a rebuttal.)
And that person was?
The lack of a good bench of Democratic candidates in 2016 doesn’t really refute my criticism of the Democratic party’s general competence.
I see. So we should just ignore that last paragraph?
is one of the results of getting rid of the ‘smoke filled rooms’ and allowing the electorate to pick from the candidates that are actually running, correct?
If you’ve got a point, I sure as hell don’t see it.
That the Democratic Party’s ‘’‘’‘leadership’‘’‘’ no longer hand picks candidates, the electorate does, and they’re stuck with the folks that actually choose to seek the nomination.
I’m quite sure there was a candidate better than Clinton that would have beat Trump in the largest landslide in history . . . trouble is they, apparently, didn’t want the job.
“You guys”?
I voted for Bernie in the primary.
But she won, she had the support of more Democrats than Bernie did. I had no problem voting for her in the general.
Who? Certainly not Bernie. The independent voters would have been running for the hills at the mention of socialism. And unlike Hillary, he owns that title.
Sorry about that. I was planning on running, but was busy with other things.
I don’t know, I just don’t know. I didn’t vote for Clinton in the primary, but she was obviously a much better candidate than Trump. But ISTM that what a whole lot of Trump voters were after was not a good candidate but an anti-good candidate, an upraised middle finger to the whole concept of good governance and representative democracy and social progress and inclusivity.
Maybe a better, more progressive Democratic candidate would also have galvanized even more enraged anti-progressives into the Trump camp. I just don’t have any confidence at all anymore in counterfactual scenarios about highly complex electoral events.
I’m aware of one guy that voted for Trump because “I want to see it all burn.”
I’m an independent–you can check that with the Secretary of State of Oregon. I will ONLY vote for a candidate that has a platform I agree with and will not vote for one who is inimical to my interests. The fact that so many centrist Democrats seem to think they have some absolute right to my vote, along with other progressives, with no need whatsoever to appeal to our interests in order to win our votes is why we’re where we are right now. We will continue to be where we are right now, either with red flavor or blue flavor, until some smart person wakes up and figures out the independents are numerically greater than either of the two stupid parties and acts accordingly. And all the dire things y’all want to threaten me with are all happening anyway while the fucking Dems sit on their hands doing precisely dick to fix anything. So it’s gonna suck for me either way, but take it from someone who endured long term domestic violence and abuse, it feels better overall to walk away from it no matter how dire the consequences because giving in to make nice kills the soul. So yeah, keep it up and see how often y’all can run the same experiment with the same variables while expecting different results–I’m morbidly and amusedly interested in just how stubborn the mainstream political parties can be about demanding a different outcome while refusing to acknowledge you don’t have the numbers to win until you do something to win the votes you think you’re entitled to.
One thing that I know about such people is that they’ve never had to rebuild after a fire.
Okay, I take it you have no interest in keeping abortion legal, or working on preventing climate change, protecting LGBTQ+ rights, or anything else like that.
Out of curiosity, since you find the Democratic platform to be “inimical” to your interests, what are they? It’s hard to pander to someone who just complains that they aren’t getting what they want, and doesn’t actually say what it is that they they want.
What you seem to miss entirely is that the party needs the support of the people in order to do anything. They can’t do anything but sit on their hands if the constituents refuse to support them.
What, specifically, should they be doing that they aren’t doing?
Oh no, I DO want all those things but it’s patently obvious that outside of meaningless campaign rhetoric the Democrats have absolutely zero intention of even trying to accomplish them. They can’t even get fucking Manchin or Sinema in line FFS, because they’re being used to “prevent” the Democrats from having to actually do any work. There are four (count ‘em FOUR) SCOTUS justices that are ripe for impeachment (three for perjury and contempt of Congress and the other for multiple offenses regarding refusal to recuse, undeclared gifts and donations and allowing his wife to use his office to fundraise for the GOP) and yet nobody aside from AOC has even made a token noise in that direction. Since doing something about these issues is LITERALLY CONGRESS’ JOB and they aren’t bothering why is it MY responsibility to handle things that I literally have NO power or control over?
Oh, and I’ve pointed out that I’m literally NOT a constituent of the Democratic party–I AM a constituent of Earl Blumenauer, Ron Wyden and Jeff Merkley however and yes, they all do hear from me on the regular for all the good it does.
TBF, though, ISTM that many mainstream Democrats are willing to tolerate this reluctance from voters to the right of them, but not voters to the left of them. As Miller put it,