The Union flag started out as a merger of the English flag (cross of St George: red cross on white background) combined with the Scots flag (white cross saltire or a blue background). Then the St Patrick’s cross (red saltire on white background) was added when Ireleandnwas merged into the UK in the early 19th century.
All of that happened long after Wales was merged under full English control by Henry VIII. There was no thought of adding any Welsh symbolism to the English cross of St George.
Looking at the various Welsh flags, it seems to me that the flag of Owen Glendwr is very similar to the flag of the Prince of Wales. Can folks tell the difference from a distance? Is it obvious in context which one is being displayed?
The idea of a nation isn’t very complicated: it’s a large group of people with a shared history, culture, often language or religion, and a sense of their own identity as a distinct people. And I’m fairly convinced you and other Canadians are familiar with the idea. Do you, for example, think of Kurds as a nation? What about Uyghurs, or Tibetans? I sure do, and I think most Canadians would as well. Kurds may not be exactly a “country” in UK parlance, being divided between several independent countries (although I understand the Iraqi Kurdistan is fairly autonomous), but there exist Uyghur and Tibetan “countries”, even if they are largely dominated by the central government of China.
In the same vein, I’m perfectly fine with the Welsh being one of the UK’s constituent nations, and Wales being that nation’s home country. I don’t think there’s anything strange or foreign about this idea. Interestingly, Wales in French is always called le pays de Galles, or literally “the Country of Wales”. As for the question in the OP, I’d never heard about the flag of Owain Glyndŵr and at first thought it referred to the flag of Wales which I am familiar with. I’ve heard of Welsh nationalism, but as I understand it’s a less important political force than Scottish nationalism. Still more important than Cornish nationalism though.
If many Canadians oppose the idea of Quebec being a nation, I don’t think it’s because they don’t understand what that means or think the idea is weird. It’s because Canadian nation-building has focused on the idea of Canada being essentially a “post-national nation” for lack of a better term. If Canada is defined by its lack of a national culture and any culture that develops in Canada is “Canadian”, then there cannot be nations existing inside Canada other than the Canadian nation itself. I don’t buy this idea of course, I think there exists a Canadian national culture and it’s essentially Ontarian culture with some added elements, but it is an idea that’s very prevalent in Canadian thought.
I find that my fellow Americans largely don’t grasp the differences among the concepts of countries, nations, and states. They use “country” and “nation” interchangeably and largely understand “state” to be a subdivision of a country.
No, that’s the Welsh national flag, which is well known throughout the UK. The thread is about a different flag, with lions on it. To answer the OP’s question, I would not have recognised the flag of OG.
As a further footnote on how Welsh nationalism is viewed, I don’t think it’s ever been established whether it was an English or Welsh person who amended the occasional “Free Wales” graffiti by adding “With every five gallons”.
AFAIK all that was back in the 60s, when there were vocal campaigns about the status of the language, and a handful of ham-fisted would-be guerrillas were caught. Since then, Welsh has much more official status in public services, education and broadcasting, as well as devolved government over a range of issues.
Huh, I had thought that the three crosses of the Union Jack were England, Wales, and Scotland. I never would have guessed that they’d omit Wales, nor that they’d include Ireland. Color me educated.
And I didn’t even get the dragon right, either. I thought that it was rampant, when it’s actually passant. Still, if I were in Wales, and saw any flag, crest, or similar symbol which included a dragon in any posture, I’d have guessed that it was the Welsh dragon.
Once you know what you’d looking at, it is definitely easy to tell the difference from a significant distance because the PoW flag has a green shield-y thing in the center. (As you can see I am a great expert in heraldry since I know terms like “shield-y thing.”)
And at a closer distance it’s easy to see that the lions in OG are rampant and passant in PoW
Just to muddy the waters further, Wales does have a cross flag - you just don’t see it very often. It’s the cross of St David, Wales’ nation saint. But it isn’t the national flag.
Whereas England (cross of St George) and Scotland (cross of St Andrew) do use their nation saint flags as national flags. The Republic of Ireland clearly has a different flag from the cross of St Patrick used in the Union Jack. That’s a bit of an historic hangover.
Northern Ireland doesn’t have an official national flag.
Wales’ official national flag is clearly the world’s coolest. Who doesn’t want a dragon!
Pretty much, with Cornwall as the embarrassing baby brother running up behind and yelling “I want to play too!”
I’m English, but spent my early childhood within half a mile of the Welsh border and speak a little Welsh (albeit very little now; we were going to move to North Wales when I was a kid, as my parents had bought land and were planning on starting a business, but were chased out by local nationalists who set fire to the caravan we were staying in and openly boasted about doing so). I am familiar with the tales of Owain Glyndwr even if I can’t spell his name without checking, rather too familiar with Welsh nationalism, but I wouldn’t have recognised the flag.
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