In short then, you’ve got anecdote and a conviction that your knowledge of the working class experience must outweigh everyone else’s, but nothing else. Splendid.
Let’s go through this slowly. If you accept that immigration leads to increased GDP at a rate higher than just population growth (as all the surveys show), then you acknowledge that they have helped put more money in the pot.
What you are complaining about is that that pot is not then used for proportionally greater funding for the social services such as NHS or education…which of course is nothing to do with the immigrants, and everything to do with our government.
Yet somehow you conclude that somehow stepping out of the EU (with it’s various checks and balances and consistently more socialist leaning than the UK government has had for decades) will see the government dividing that pot in a more equitable way…for reasons known only to you, and your dislike of immigrants.
Don’t the French/Spanish healthcare systems already bill the British one for the healthcare received by British citizens? It’s the case for temporary residents, I’m not sure it’s also the case for permanent residents.
I understand that rather than indivual countries billing each other, it’s all supposed to go through the European Social Security Exchange, which is not part of the EU.
One of the biggest selling points of Brexit was about an association which is not part of the EU :smack:
It’s going to cause lots of arguments, ad hominem attacks, hasty generalisations, non sequiturs, and straw person fallacies. There’ll be plenty of brickbats thrown, a few punches, some sneering, mocking and general nasty behaviour. This will probably effect the UK detrimentally more than Brexit itself, as any good/bad news will be because of/in spite of Brexit (depending on the agenda you’re wanting to further), and used to open old wounds, gain clicks and viewers, and as a very simple (i.e. idiotic) way to ‘categorise’ a fellow Brit without having to actually take the time to get to know them and their circumstances. A clusterfuck of epic proportions, which has come about because 1/3 of the country voted Leave, 1/3 voted Remain, and a 1/3 didn’t bother, with the case for all three decisions based on truth, lies and absolutely hysterical bullshit claims in the media by politicians, business leaders, scientists, economists, and anyone considered an influential voice.
As to the more tangible effects: nobody knows how this will turn out because it’s never been done before. All those forecasts were given short shrift if they went against an opinion, some personal reasons for voting were downright bizarre (Leave - “I don’t like European football on the telly all of the time”, Stay - “We’ll never win Eurovision” etc) We can speculate, maybe make some personal changes to benefit from what we think the UK will look like in 5 years, and just be ready to adapt to changes in circumstances. In the meantime, lots and lots of arguing.
Which I find a weak retort. Let’s replace the Pound with Bitcoin, or abolish cars in favour of giraffes. No, it’s not ludicrous, because it’s never been done before.
Fair enough, although simple logic could apply to your examples; a giraffe is too tall to fit in the garage and it’s too expensive (and requires too much energy) to create enough bitcoin to service the UK’s entire money supply. We left the gold standard for a reason.
You’ve fallen into the trap (mentioned, ironically, in my post you replied to) of building a straw man, either in your haste to create conflict in a Brexit thread or as some kind of tactic to try and convince me to vote Remain, although I’ve given no such direction as to which way I voted, or even if I had done so. Here’s a tip; the voting finished ten months ago and what/if I voted for is between me and the ballot box. You’ll have more luck trying to start an argument with yourself in an empty room or on the boards of the Daily Hile.
That’s exactly what I’ve had to do. I actually applied before the referendum because I had a horrible feeling the Leave would win. But the current waiting period is 17-20 months and it is has been 13 so far for me. Let’s just say I am nervous. I could have a small thing wrong with my application and be sent back to the end of the queue, leaving me in a very iffy position.
And to top it all, this is due to a referendum that I wasn’t allowed to vote in.
So yet another exemplar of how the EU values the democratic integrity of member states - leaders in Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, etc will not be wryly nodding.
How about the separation of Czechoslovakia into the Czech republic and Slovenia? How about the separation of Taiwan from China? How about the separation of southern Ireland from the UK? Hell, how about the separation of America from the British Empire? Or Oz, Canada, and NZ from the British Empire?
What on earth are you taking about? The Brexit gang in Whitehall seem to think they can have all the advantages of EU membership while having none of the obligations. The EU thinks that’s barking mad. What’s mafia-like about that?
I don’t know much about the eastern bloc economies but given they were all suffering from economic malaise and were considerably less globalised than today, I would get the harm was smaller, and couldn’t be worse than the dislocation they already had.
Um, as result of a civil war? Not really a good example.
Again, I’m unsure, but I think the South was already very, very poor and also was economically dormant until the 80s, with EU membership.
Geographical distance may be a factor, plus that it wasn’t an on/off event but a gradual evolution their their status. And the US did suffer from dislocation from the UK, didn’t it? Until matters were patched up.
Oh, plus, that was nearly THREE HUNDRED YEARS AGO.
None of those involved unravelling the legal implications of this particular set of treaties (and three resulted from violent disagreements). Not much to be derived in the way of precedents.
(Not Slovenia, by the way - Slovakia: though that, curiously, might be the closest parallel, since it involved the larger party finally saying to the moaning junior party “We’ve spent long enough asking you what you want, we’re pullingl the plug now and you can sort yourselves out”).