What do the sizing conventions for rifles and shotguns indicate, and how did they get originated?
I’ve heard the terms, 4-10, 12 gauge, double aught buckshot. I know these terms refer to different aspects of guns, but what do they mean? Also IIRC, the shotgun shells have a non-linear progressing and convention for labeling the sives. Some using numbers, others letters, and so on. Shotguns get bigger the lower the gauge, right? Why? Do any of the conventions overlap the rifle/shotgun/pistol types?
As always, additional useless information is always welcome.
There are several different naming conventions for size and type and they aren’t consistent with each other.
Shotgun gauge is the number of lead balls the diameter of the bore to make one pound. pretty convluted huh? Smaller numbers mean bigger bore.
The .410 shotgun is an exception, not 4-10, but .410" diameter bore.
For most rifle and handgun ammunition the caliber is in an expression of inches or millimeters. In the US it is typically the larger groove diamater of the barrel wher ein europe it’s the smaller land diamater. Consequently a US .308 rifle bullet is slightly smaller than a British .303 bullet. Some numbers are changed a little to make a designation a little different than an existing one and some are pulled right out of a hat. A .38 special bullet is .357" in diameter.
Sometimes a number or two is appended to designate other things. 30-30 means a .30 caliber bullet, nominally .308 in diameter, with a 30 grain charge of powder. 45-70-500 means a .45 caliber bullet, 70 grains of powder with a 500 grain bullet. (7000 grains = 1lb)
30-06, pronounced thirty - aught six, is .30 caliber modified in 1906 from the earlier 30-03.
Unclebeer’s gonna kill me for beating him to the punch again on this chart, but here is a chart of the standard commercially available shot sizes.
I’ll leave the fill-in info to others, so as not to be seen as the resident Gun Guy.
“Caliber” is roughly the measurement of the size of the bullet in decimal inches. So a .223 shell is a little smaller that a quarter of an inch across. The bigger the caliber the bigger the bullet. Rifle shells are mostly measured in caliber.
“Gaugue” is a little different. A 12 gauge shotgun shell is as wide as the diameter of a ball of lead weighing 1/12 of a pound. So gauge is inversely proportional to size- the lower the gauge, the bigger the ball of lead; the higher the gauge, the smaller the ball of lead. Shotguns are mostly measued in gauge.
Pretty arcane, huh?
Oh, and a .410 (not 4-10) shotgun is a caliber, not a gauge. Gets confusing sometimes.
But the size of the lead shot in a shotgun shell (as Manny so nicely provided) has nothing to do with the size (gauge) of the shell. Shells can be filled with any size shot, and generally, the size of the shell also has nothing to do with the perceived power of the gun, as opposed to rifles and handguns where a bigger shell usually makes a more powerful shot.
The only advantage of a bigger shotgun shell is that you can cram more shot into the shell, thereby increasing the number of shot in your shotstream (“cloud”), which increases your chances of hitting your target. In fact, that’s the whole point of a shotgun - when shooting at a moving target, it’s a lot easier to hit your target with hundreds of little projectiles instead of one big one.
Any idea why the .410 is an exception? What is the range on shotgun gauges?
Is there a reason many rifles and handguns use a caliber specification, as opposed to the millimeter on others? It doesn’t seem to be a metric vs. english standard since many US manufactures make huge amounts of both. Also, why are the caliber specs not the same as the true barrel caliber, is this some odd reasoning comparable to the measurements of lumber?
The hell with you bastards. I’m posting this anyway. There were zero resposes when I started composing my reply, so eat me.
Shotgun gauge or bore diameter - Start with one pound of lead. For a 12 gauge, divide that pound of lead in 12 equal spherical portions. Measure the diameter of that lead sphere. That measurement equals the bore diameter of a 12 gauge shotgun. For a 4 gauge shotgun, divide the pound of lead in 4 equal spheres. Do you see the pattern here?
The .410 shotgun refers directly to the bore diameter in inches and is the only shotgun measured in caliber, or bore diameter. This is very similar to the bore diameter of rifle or handgun cartridges. That is to say, a .357 caliber revolver will fire a projectile .375 inches in diameter. Even these calibers don’t always equate directly to bore diameter tough. For instance, a .38 caliber revolver also fires a .357 inch diameter projectile; don’t ask me why. It’s probably just a nominal identifier, like the 2" x 4" isn’t really 2" x 4". I would assume the cartridge has evolved somewhat over the years to its current size.
Now, on to shot size. As you probably know, shot size has nothing to do with bore diameter; it is merely the size of the individual pellets in a shot shell. Don’t ask me how they decided what is #6 shot and what is #7 shot but here’s a chart of [shot"]http://www.gunshop.com/shotsize.htm]shot]( [url="http://www.gunshop.com/shotsize.htm) sizes.
Unclebeer, I was conentrating on metallic cartridges and not shotshells I think the two of us bastards can get along on this one <gartuitous smiley deleted>
Caliber only represents the diameter but most ammunition is referred to by cartridge name which implies a whole lot more information. As an example the US miliatary has used at least four different .30 caliber cartridges that all use a .308" diameter bullet but are othewise completely different: 30-40 Krag, 30 cal US (30-06 Springfield), 30 carbine and 7.62 NATO (.308 Winchester).
Naval guns are another matter. They may be 16"x50 Caliber. (Just making up the numbers here.) That would be a gun with a 16" bore (caliber), and a barrel length of 50 times the caliber (50 * 16 = 800, / 12 = 66 2/3 feet).
I’ve just spent the best part of the last month disassembling, stripping, conquest rustproofing, priming, and repainting our WW2 40mm Bofors gun. Just like the old joke, we may have a few spare parts left at the end!
My next big spring project will be to repaint our 1892-vintage British 6-inch coast artillery barrel (Mk IV, originally on a Mk VI hydro-pneumatic disappearing mounting for those who care). Weight: 12,000 pounds, range (max elevation, max charge: 10,000 yds, weight of shell: 100 pounds).
Then I have to find a brass source for .577 brass shells, to be hand-loaded as blank for our Martini-Henry rifles, carried here by the Royal Marine Artillery in the 1890s. We’re going to have a small firing demo at our annual re-enactment weekend this spring, and for the first time ever we’re going to have things go bang. Pleases the visitors (and it’s fun for us, too.)
I read a description of the Soviet Army (this was when there was a Soviet Army, so this isn’t recent info) and the author said they would change the caliber designation, if necessary, to avoid confusing one kind of ammo with another. For instance, if they had a 109-mm howitzer and a 109-mm mortar they would designate the mortar, say, as 112 millimeters, just so they wouldn’t end up with a bunch of 109-mm mortar shells delivered to the howitzer battery.
Makes sense to me.
he sleeps on that pile/of newspapers/in the corner/and when he
takes off his/shoes you cannot/smell his breath
“king nicky”, archyology
Don Marquis
It can be a fun quagmire UB. Some guys memorize baseball stats I have the Speer reloading manual and an old edition of Cartridges of the World, unfortunately not handy here at work.
You’ve got me stumped on that one. The only .22 I reload is .223 Remington which is really a .224" bullet same as a .220 Swift, .222 Remington, , 221 Fireball, .224 Weatherby and AFAIK .218 bee. The exception is .22 hornet which is really .223" .22 rimfires are smaller but it escapes me just now.
My head is starting to pulsate and may explode soon but why stop now?
In the US .308 and 7.62mm bullets are really .308" but across the Atlantic .303 British and 7.62mm russian bullets are really .311"
9mm is pretty close to what it says, .356", unless you mean 9mm Makarov which is .363" .38 Special is .357", same as a .357 magnum but .38 super auto is the same as 9mm. .44 special and magnum are .429" .32 is .312"
Rifle bullets of 6mm, 7mm and 8mm caliber are really 6.17mm, 7.21mm and 8.2mm in diameter but in the US we calls 'em as we measures 'em, .243, .284 and …I don’t know know any 8mm with an inch designation.
I must go take a little nap now. I wonder if I have limes at home for that case of Corona.
The Russians are remarkably sensible about things and it’s a pity the US military isn’t more like them in some ways. In the army an M-60 can be a tank or a shoulder fired machine gun. in WWII and Korea “.30 caliber M1” could mean the Garand rifle which can dish out some serious whoop ass or a little carbine which may not stop a poodle if he’s in good health.
Say, most never did answer the OP topic. My biggest caliber weapon is a Colt .45 ACP pistol but biggest overall is my '43 Springfield Armory M1 Garand.
I remember reading somewhere that the .30-30 Winchester cartridge was designed for 30 grains of black powder, as opposed to smokeless powder; but that it was never manufactured with black powder because smokeless powder was the latest-and-greatest propellant. True or false?
Other “dash” calibers were also loaded with black powder: .25-20, .45-70, .44-40, for example.
I once had an FN-FAL in .308 Winchester. I was told that in Belgium (where it was manufactured) people could not own military-chambered firearms, so civilian models were stamped “.308 Winchester” instead of “7.62x53mm NATO”. No idea if it’s true.
BTW: I just got my new CAR-15 upper receiver assembly (M-16A2 with a 16" bbl. in 5.56mm – I mean, .223 Remington) today.
