Probably one of my pet - and petty - peeves, but it bugs me when I see people write decades with apostrophes - a la “the 50’s.” Just saw it in a FQ thread about the lost colony - and see it frequently.
In a board supposedly desiring to fight ignorance, would it be worth a joint effort to POLITELY correct such improper usage? Do folk who write this improperly KNOW it is improper and prefer to write it so?
As you seem to be lobbying posters to take up this cause in general, and not requesting a change in the rules of the board, I’m moving this to MPSIMS.
I avoid the problem by writing fiftie’s.
The issue is addressed by style guides, however.
For a general audience, I don’t think it matters. There’s no style guide for posts here, so clarity is the primary criterion. Does anyone have trouble with “the 50’s” vs “the 50s”?
If I were going to complain “the 50’s” it would be that it should be “the 1950’s”, with or without the apostrophe.
Since the “19” is being left off, shouldn’t it be the “‘50s”?
You wrote this half wrong if you’re following Associated Press Style. It should be '50s, with an apostrophe preceding the 50. There is absolutely nothing wrong with 50’s, but that way of writing is a bit old-fashioned now. Style guides did used to recommend the usage you’re not fond of. ETA: In older editions of the Chicago Manual of Style the apostrophe-s-plural was proscribed. For example, this is the first edition of CMOS back in 1906:
These are not immutable rules of language. These are just matters of style. Tastes change; some stylebooks call for one thing, others another, etc. Just be consistent in your writing when there are multiple sources with different views on it.
My own recollection is that we were taught to put that apostrophe there. I don’t use it because I don’t like it. It just feels visually bothersome. I prefer the tidier look of omitting the apostrophe, but I was taught “1950’s.” My teacher would have bristled at omitting the lead “19,” especially without an apostrophe, probably making a point of “the 50s” refers to some time just after the death of Christ.
It should be “’50s”.
A descriptivist’s view could be that an important use of the apostrophe is to warn that an “s” is coming.
Agreed, but also, this made me wonder… are there such things as immutable rules of language? I feel like the answer must be no, since (I think) all parts of (I think) all languages have been subject to change and have evolved.
Certainly it seems like some folks would like there to be immutable rules that they can try to enforce, even though they have little authority and even less power, but people wanting a thing doesn’t mean there is that thing.
Yeah, there’s an idea that there is a “universal grammar,” but there’s also counterarguments to that that basically say there’s universal tendencies, not requirements, but I suspect that is a rather thick subject, and I personally don’t know much beyond the fact that a debate between two sides exists.
Chomsky’s thesis of ‘Universal Grammar’ isn’t that there is one perfect or preferred style of construction bit just that there are basic rules and constraints on what the grammatical structure of a natural human-developed language that is a result of neurolinguistic structures in the brain. In a very general since this is almost certainly true, although there is considerable discussion and disagreement over just what those constrains are, and many if not most linguists are of the opinion that Chomsky and his defenders have overextended their arguments.
As for the use of the apostrophe in the English language, the stylistic application and rules behind it are so varied and often misunderstood that there is a good argument for eliminating it in favor of a more consistent syntax for expressing possession, and using it only to identify contractions (if that). But language use doesn’t really follow imposed rules by the literary elite; it emerges from a consensus of popular use and utility, and style guides exist specifically to codify syntax and more complex rules about tenses and compound constructions for clarity in formal writing, not to be imposed on every casual conversation and communication. If you want total conformity, learn Esperanto, which has the questionable benefit of being about to watch a terrible William Shatner movie without subtitles.
Stranger
Extra apostrophes kind of annoy me, especially for your basic plurals like “don’t use extra apostrophe’s.” I don’t use apostrophes for numbers, but there’s no confusion when people do and they don’t bother me.
What does really bother me is posts to correct someone’s grammar. The grammer bothers you? Go punch a wall, scream into a pillow, or just seeth in silence. Don’t bother everyone else with your “correction”.
It’s funny that the OP of this thread is one of 2 people on this board I would list as having the most annoying grammatical habits.
Prescribed, no?
Yes, prescribed. Landed on the opposite word somehow.
But now you’ve got the apposite word.
Moderating:
You are in MPSIMS. Don’t make personal attacks.
I understand about wanting to drop the apostrophe. But having lived with it for half a century, I’m kind of sentimentally attached to it.
Tell you what - I’ll trade it for reinstating the literal definition of “literally”.
How ’ bout we fight some ignorance by ignoring pointless and baseless traditional rules about punctuation.
Stranger