The subject is pretty much self explanatory… I just don’t understand how cops can issue speeding tickets on a toll road if the road is not being paid for/maintained by the government. I can understand the need for general patrolling to control crime and major traffic violations… but it just doesn’t seem fair to set up speed traps and give out tickets for going a few miles over the speed limit.
Because the law says you have to obey speed limits on public roads and not only on roads paid for by the government?
Cops can issue tickets on a toll road because the law says they can. Just because a road is being paid for by tolls does not make it private; indeed, I have never heard of a private toll road in the US. Those roads are owned by your local or state government.
Cops cannot generally issue tickets on private roads, unless they have the permission of the owner.
If a road is “Open to the public” it is a public place. Traffic laws in at least one state I’m aware of basically say “This law applies to roads that are public places.”
Thus, said traffic laws prohibit you from driving around a mall parking lot at 88 miles per hour, even though the mall is not public property.
Technically, traffic laws do not prohibit people from exceeding the speed limit in mall parking lots. Commercial enterprises must first establish a compliance agreement with local law enforcement. When you see “vehicles will be towed” signs, this is usually an indication that such an agreement is in place. Obviously, malls and other large public venues need to limit their liability and reply upon these sorts of pacts to do so.
It is no great leap to imagine that whatever organization runs the private toll roads has put such agreements in place as well. Again, technically, toll roads are not “open to the public.” You purchase the temporary right to use their facilities and agree to comply with the terms of agreement. I’m sure there’s something to that effect printed on the ticket you receive at the toll booth.
I do not think this is so. A toll road is open to the public just as a reataurant or a department store and the state can and does regulate such public places.
Dulles Greenway. I drive it every week, although I can’t remember ever having seen anyone pulled over. I don’t know what kind of arrangement the owners have with Va. DOT to operate the road, secure rights of way, etc., but it is most definitely privately owned.
The Dulles Access Road is owned by the FAA exclusively for the use of Dulles airport patrons, but is patrolled heavily by the Virginia State Police. Not sure how they have jurisdiction on federal property, but I guess the FBI doesn’t give out traffic tickets. 
Source: http://www.americancityandcounty.com/ar/government_making_inroads_private/
Source: http://www.americancityandcounty.com/ar/government_making_inroads_private/
The OP referred to a toll road not financed by the government. That would make it de facto private property. Restaurants and malls have the right to revoke public access at any time, it’s just not in their interest. I was taught that, in California, a commercial enterprise must make a formal posting of jurisdiction before law enforcement can pursure vehicular violations on that property. Ergo, my response.
I don’t think the towing signs have anything directly to do with the police, at least in NC. Cars illegally parked on someone’s property can be towed by a private towing company with no police assistance, and the person goes to that company to recover their car, not to the police or a court case. (These do generally have to be posted and include contact info for the towing company). I can double check, but I don’t believe the police take a hand in that sort of towing.
My apartment complex uses this to keep our lots from being unusable on days when there’s a soccer game accross the street; it really sucks to be coming home with a trunk full of stuff and find that you’ve got to walk 1/4 mile because the parking lots and road near your home are all filled up.
This makes absolutely no sense to me. The question is “How can cops give out speeding tickets on privately funded toll roads?” So far nobody has argued a road not financed or owned by the government is not private property so I am not sure why you feel the need to insist that it is private property.
Again, what does this have to do with anything? The question is not whether a private toll road can restrict access, but whether the state can regulate activities taking place in a place of business open to the general public but privately owned and the answer is most clearly that the state does have that right. It regulates malls, restaurants, amusement parks and toll roads.
That seems to apply to a private place not open to the general public but, in any case, so what? Again, in case you missed it, the OP is “How can cops give out speeding tickets on privately funded toll roads?”. The answer is because the law says they can and should. Why would you believe otherwise? Maybe I am missing something but your post makes no sense to me.
Two points to Jonathan Woodall for the “BAck to the Future” reference.
This a very old post and no one will probably ever read this, but I feel like the record should be set straight and I’ve got nothing better to do. So all it will take in this day and age is this link https://www.google.com/amp/amp.bellinghamherald.com/news/traffic/rules-of-the-road/article56084400.html
and assuming this is not fake news then the op is already close to the truth. Regular laws and traffic violations that directly endanger other people must always be enforced by the police. However if you read the embedded link, permission must be given by the owner of the property for simple traffic violations as demonstrated by HOAs voting to allow law enforcement to patrol in a privately owned publicly available neighborhood. But unless your on a racetrack the owner of the road has most likely approved law enforcement for general traffic laws. So, op who will never read this, point is if you see a traffic limit sign even on a toll road and your going over the limit, your fair game.
Well thats possibly a default situation for the typical car park and lanes on private land,
but toll roads are usually created and controlled by seperate laws… Specifically they laws would clarify that the “ownership” is generally only the right to claim tolls.
Suppose the toll road operator decided that it didn’t want to collect tolls any more, and said it installed the concrete, its going to rip it up ?
Probably the toll road is LITERALLY state/gov owned… the land used for it is definitely owned by gov (tunnels and bridges not being in places where private land title EXISTS !), and the concrete is probably not available for the toll road operator to rip up or modify without permission or contrary to the standards and function of a public road… … So in practical terms its the right to collect tolls that is in private hands… In this state, we call them toll road OPERATORS for that reason.
Its probably pedantic to actually consider the ownership of the land or improvements, so what if the law or contract says that the land at this place and that place is owned by the toll road operator,
the contract or law will also say that the road is a public road just the same as a 100% gov road, except for the allocation of tolls.
Did you know that in the past gov used to build toll ways, and then SELL the toll collection rights ? The only thing the toll “operator” had to do was collect the toll, and if the operator chose, they could keep it clean and smooth and a nice road to drive on …
A few years ago I witnessed a minor accident in a fast food parking lot. The police were called and seeing me in a good position to observe, they asked for my version of what happened. The policeman informed me that he could not issue a ticket since it was private property, but was preparing a statement of fact for any insurance claim.
Dennis
This is just as silly as asking
Can you be arrested for murdering somebody on private property?
The laws of the government apply to the entire territory that is governed, no matter who owns it.
(There are minor exceptions, like embassies of foreign nations, sanctuary in churches, etc., but those are specifically covered in the government laws.)
Depends what the local state traffic act says. IIRC, the law where I live was amended way back in the 60’s or 70’s. With the increasing number of commercial (Private but open to public) parking lots and resulting accidents, it was becoming too much of a bother that people could effectively ignore traffic rules with impunity and not pay damages for causing accidents, just because the government did not own the land and it was not a government road. (I believe) basically the law says - if a private property owner puts up *standard traffic signs *- stop signs, speed limits, one way, Yield, no parking, handicapped only, crosswalk, etc. - then you are violating the Highway Traffic Act if you disobey them. As a result, you can be ticketed for disobeying them. If the owner of the land does not want the police handing out tickets on his land, he can ask the police not to be there enforcing them. Presumably the owner can ask the police to come and enforce them, but it’s up to the police what they want to do. (suggesting “someone almost got run over” might help persuade them…) the onus to obey the signs also meant that the person disobeying them was at fault in an accident. before that, there was no blame attached to any accident - use private land at your own risk.
Another interesting issue I run into is fire lanes; they are designated by municipalities even if private property, and must remain clear for emergency vehicles (i.e. no parking). This appears to be separate from traffic controls. You can still be ticketed.
After all, if I go through a stop sign and hit you, but it’s private land and the traffic rules and penalties don’t apply, why should you expect the civil courts to make me pay for the damage to your car? Either a stop sign is a stop sign, and there’s a penalty for ignoring it whether damage results or not - or it’s a suggestion and a decoration. Why would I be obliged to stop? The land owner does not have the right to assign blame in a dispute between two other parties… All he can do is say “I don’t like your driving. You are no longer welcome on my land in future…”
What can or can’t be written on private property varies greatly between states. For instance I can’t write you for disobeying a sign or signal but I can write you for careless driving. Out of all the motor vehicle statutes there are only a handful that are valid to write on private property.
Because carelessness or recklessness are the same on private or public property. As I mentioned above in my state careless driving can be enforced on private property even though blowing through a stop sign can’t. Reckless driving driving is enforceble too.
But careless is a subjective term. And if a stop sign is not enforceable (on private property) it’s just a decoration. Me going through it (carefully) does not implicitly indicate carelessness because it has no force… any more than me going the wrong way (carefully) on a private road. Everywhere you are obliged to be careful and avoid causing accidents. However, if it is not mandatory to obey private traffic signs, then the person obliviously assuming there are no oncoming cars or wandering pedestrians is equally at fault, even though going the “right” way. A person assuming another will stop at a meaningless stop sign is exhibiting a degree of carelessness.
That’s why I like the system in much of Canada, where such signs are enforceable. Then there is no question what you must do to be careful.