Quite so, Ravenman; If you don’t mind, I’ll expound on that a bit.
Bryan, the United States has had major revivals and religious…enthusiams…throughout it’s history. The 1857-1860 'Great Awakening, the preachers during the 1920’s (look up Father Coughlin as a good example). This one seems to be losing steam, and it hasn’t won all that many battles lately (gay rights are expanding, creationism/ID is pretty much defunct, abortion (while restricted) is still the law of the land). What I don’t see is any leadership that would take the reins and ride a wave into power (Robertson and Falwell were/are abominable, IMHO, but like Billy Graham they were part of the system). Plus they are either dead or decrepit and I don’t see anyone with the same fire to whip the “Holy Masses” into shape. Not that he/she isn’t out there, like a Nehemiah Scudder, but I can’t find one.
As for prudery and racism, I suggest a visit to most of American history. Believe it or not, we’re living in something of a Golden Age comparitive to most of American history. Again, IMHO, but I think the record will back me up on this.
I left off guns, for the simple reason that introducing guns (which have always been with us), usually tends to sidetrack the conversation into a derailment. Suffice it to say that compared with the 1960’s and 70’s, or even the 1920’s (and even earlier, the Anarchists and the birth of the Labor movement in the 1890’s) I am much less worried about revolution than you are.
Which doesn’t mean you’re wrong…I just don’t see enough to convince that you are right.
You’re negatively worried about revolution?
As a minor correction, I was mistaken when I said the U.S. was about the size of Western Europe. The U.S. is almost the size of all of Europe.
I’ll assume your facts are correct, for now. What specific anti-semitic acts by the US government, in your view, have taken place as a result of these 73 invitations?
If the answer is ‘none’, as I suspect it is, I don’t think you are making a very important point.
If the left was smart, they’d realize a highly armed left would be the best protection against any sort of fascism-one of the biggest mistakes of the Reichsbanner social democratic militia was that they did not in fact stage an armed rising after the Nazis took power.
And what does evangelicalism have to do with anything?
Pre-Nazi Germany and pre-fascist Italy were distinctly less prudish than the Anglo-Saxon democracies.
Europe is far more racist than the United States.
I’m much more worried about plutocratic neoliberalism.
Who don’t wield anything like the influence, sheer numbers, and de facto sanction to commit violence as the SA did in Weimar.
The Chancellor was the head of government in Weimar, the Speaker of the House is not.
Considering Trump isn’t openly calling for destruction of the Constitution and liberal government, he’s far more akin to previous right-wing populists in American history like George Wallace then he is to Hitler.
Hmmm…that’s an interesting point you’re raising…Do you think this “Obama by association” problem could go away, if President Obama stopped associating so closely with avowed anti-Semites?
Please don’t. Check them yourselves and report back to us with your findings.
I have no idea–and that’s why we need answers here.
For example, we know that US relationship with Israel is going through some very rough patches. Is this result of normal political disagreements or is this result of President Obama associating so closely with the likes of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, etc?
If a known KKK leader led a “Death to n…gers” march on the heels of a lynching and murder of a black man, then later was invited to the White House 73 times, then some very pointed questions should be asked, such as:
“Mr. President, do you think associating closely with known racists has no impact on your policy?”
'Mr. President, did this KKK leader ever express any remorse over leading a march with ‘Death to n…gers’ slogans"?
We went through this already–President Obama associates closely with avowed anti-Semites, such as Al Sharpton
We went through this already as well–this is the moral equivalent of “I’m not racist! Some of best friends are black!” defense.
Herman Goering associated closely with some Jews. He also associated closely with Hitler.
Assuming you’re talking about the famous Al Sharpton, he is not an avowed anti-Semite. I still don’t think you know what “avowed” means.
But I’m glad to see that this thread happened to go where you wanted it.
Right, and Goring was involved with the mistreatment and murder of tons of Jews. Obama has not been involved with the mistreatment and murder of Jews, and Al Sharpton is not Hitler.
Since Sharpton is not an “avowed anti-Semite”, and hasn’t in fact done or said anything anti-Semitic in all his time associating in any way with Obama, and since Obama has not done or said anything anti-Semitic that I know of, it’s pretty easy to conclude that there’s no reason to believe Obama is an anti-Semite.
So, you would not call a man who led a march (on the heels of racially-motivated murder of a Jew, followed by racially motivated beatings of Jews and destruction of Jewish property) with slogans such as “Death to the Jews”, an avowed anti-Semite?
Fair enough, you’re entitled to your opinion.
What kind of anti-Semite would you call Al Sharpton then?
Your average run-of-the-mill anti-Semite? Not an anti-Semite? A friend of the Jews, perhaps?
Would you say it’s ok to associate with a man who led “Death to n…gers” march, as long as he’s not saying anything of the sort, while in your company?
“May have been”–you don’t think leading a march with slogans such as “Death to the Jews” qualifies one as an anti-Semite?
Do you have any evidence that Al Sharpton ever expressed regret over leading a march with slogans such as “Death to the Jews”?
Let’s say this was the day after a Jewish man was hunted down and stabbed to death, while Jews were beaten in the streets and their property was destroyed.
Do you have any evidence that Al Sharpton ever rejected his earlier actions?
Let’s say since then Al Sharpton made a number of anti-Semitic remarks.
“Avowed” means he has taken a vow promising that he will be an anti-Semite.
Do you have any evidence that he has taken such s vow?
If you mean to use “avowed” in its absolutely loosest metaphorical sense, you have to show that he has at least said affirmatively “I am an anti-Semite” and meant it as a matter of principle. Do you even have any evidence that he has done so?
Hey, this is the country that took Nazis, had them build big rockets for us, and we rode them to the moon. How do you know that Al Sharpton isn’t providing some technical expertise to the Government, just like Werner Von Braun did?
That’s right. You don’t know what they talked about, do you. And you can’t show any Obama policies that are anti-Semitic.
I’m okay with saying pockets of Europe and pockets of the U.S. are inclined to fascism. The land areas and population are comparable that normal variability almost requires it.
