No, fascism hasn't come to America. Here is why

The BBQ Pit
1

A lot of people have and continue to compare Trump to Hitler, saying that fascism has come, etc. This is hyperbole at its worst, now that he is the POTUS elect. In a campaign, its more acceptable to make crazy comparisons (even tho I wish both the right and left would stop it), but now that he’ll be in office in 2 months and the transition has begun, lets go thru history of fascist/totalitarian societies, and why Trump is highly HIGHLY unlike to make us into one:

Germany had legitimate representative democracy for a grand total of 15 years before Hitler took power. Before 1918, Germany was a non-democratic monarchy in all its forms for 1000+ years. Basically, Weimar was bound to fail and its citizens, bureaucrats were unsteeped in democratic heritage. Before the Kaiser Empire, it was the Holy Roman Empire for a while too, and Charlemagne (he was actually German, not French) was no democrat and neither were his precedessors or successors. The Weimar Constitution could easily be suspended, as Hitler made happen.

France: went fascist after the German invasion, tho there was enough popular support and collaborationism in Vichy France to keep the Vichy-Nazi alliance going. There was also clearly enough support for fascism that it further facilitated the Holocaust. France had only had democracy for 70 years before Petain. France had also had a history of (near)absolute monarchs before democracy.

Italy: also a monarchy, the shortly a democracy, before a Mussolini state.

Spain: never democratic before Franco, and almost reverted to monarchy after Franco but for Juan Carlos II, likely prodded by NATO.

Russia: Aside from 9 years of Yeltsin, no history of democracy. Even during Yeltsin, still wasn’t much of a real democracy. Was run then, and still run by KGB/USSR vets.

I could go on.
Trump does sound like strongman-like, he’s going into a system with a 2 and a half century history of democracy, checks and balances, and a population that is steeped in it, and believes in it. Hitler strongly believed in the stuff he said and thought. Trump believes in nothing but Trump. There’s a lot of good comparisons debunking this hyperbole:

and those sources are not conservative. So please, people, stop acting like the sky has fallen!

2

In fairness, the people on the left (me included) who’ve spent the last 2 years acting like the sky isn’t going to fall have been wrong every single step of the way, without exception. At this point, it’s just sensible to make pessimism the default.

3

On live TV, he threatened his political opponent with jail on no evidence and her having been cleared of any crime.
He has stated he wants legislation to allow him to sue the press for negative articles.
He wants to deport American citizens because he disagrees with the 14th Amendment.
He wants to kill the families of terrorists and re-institute torture.

4

History suggests he will not have the power to implement any of that; or for that matter, if he means any of it, nor does he have any incentive. Read what I wrote again and the links I listed.

5

It doesn’t bother you that he wants to do these things and more?
You want the President to have no respect for our freedoms? Even if he will be stopped, he thinks these things are part of being President.

6

It did bother me that he said those things; I did my part and voted for Hillary (while splitting my downballot ticket). She lost. I just think before anyone gets hepped up, it would be smart to step back and look at things in perspective.

7

He will not create a german level of fascism, but he will push the US in an authoritarian direction.

His hostility to an independent judiciary and independent media has been on show for a while.

His refusal to respect elections and democracy unless he gets the results he wants.

His threats to jail or subtly encourage his voters to kill his political opponents. Keep in mind that under W, VP Dick Cheney was in charge of an international death squad (delta force members would travel around killing terrorists. We’ve now given this power to Trump).

His open embrace of torture and war crimes.

His subtle hints that he could end street crime in Chicago in a week by turning it into a police state.

His willingness to abuse the legal system to rob and intimidate people with endless lawsuits. Now we have made him the most powerful person in the US, imagine the power he has now to get revenge on his enemies.

These are all serious risks. He isn’t Hitler, but he is as close to a fascist dictator as we can realistically get in 21st century America.

8

Hi all! Someone can help me here please?? :smack:http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19768711#post19768711
Thank you!! :slight_smile:

9

Seventy years ago, many American states were authoritarian apartheid dictatorships. Which had not always existed, but were created (anew) because of a white backlash against the wrong people gaining civil rights.

10

Maybe some people are exaggerating how bad things could get, but the OP is a pretty weak argument.

We’re supposed to ignore everything Trump has pledged to do, and what many of his supporters want him to do, because…America has been a democracy for a real long time you guys.

11

Somebody has to be the last President of the United States, just like someone had to be the last Emperor of Rome, or the last Khan of Mongolia.

I’m pretty sure Trump isn’t going to be it. But then, how many Romans thought Romulus Augustus was just going to be a bit of a rough patch, and afterwards everything would get better?

12

Which states were those?

13

I’d say with a Republican majority in congress, one or more republican judges on The Court, and the level of bombast we are hearing, that system of checks and balances you have so much faith in is getting pretty weak.

14

As another poster said and to paraphrase, is this the time we get to see the left on board with checks and balances and a stricter reading of the constitution?

15

I think Andrew Sullivan said it best.

16

Are you fucking kidding? Or are you even more stupid and ignorant of history than you pretend to be?

17

So much depends on Ruth Bader Ginsburg breathing for four years.

18

The left has always been on board with “checks and balances”. The question is: if the Democrats decide to emulate their right-wing brethren for the next Congress, will the right be “on board” with that? Unstinting obstructionism? Refusal to compromise on any point no matter how trivial? Shouting “You lie!” at the President? Or will opposing the president become “treason” and “unpatriotic” as it was called under Bush?

19

The main reason Trump is called a fascist is the immigration policy. Yes he wants to increase the extraordinary number of Obama deportations. Obama already had a staggering number of deportations, but that’s ok because he doesn’t talk about it. Obama has assassinated US citizens without due process. We were already on the path to Trump, but it was just hidden from view.

20

He asked why, if we have nuclear weapons, we can’t use them.