There are some, including me, who are comparing this Donald Trump phenomenon with the rise of Adolph Hitler. Sure, this may seem like a stretch at the moment, but there are some disturbing similarities. One thing that isn’t similar is the state of the nation. Germany was in much worse shape than we are now. When a nation is in crisis, its people are sometimes willing to overlook some excesses that they would have otherwise not. I believe that is the case with Trump.
His popularity stems from the mistaken notion that our nation and our way of life is somehow under siege. But enough people realize that this is not the case to most likely prevent a Trump win. The danger comes if there is some major crisis or a series of small ones. A continued escalation with ISIS would be the perfect recipe. Even if Trump doesn’t win there is a disturbing sentiment that will not be put to rest with his defeat.
The truth is that there are many similarities between the rise of Trump and the rise of Hitler. I wouldn’t go so far as to compare the two men, at least not at this point. But there’s a nastiness about this whole thing that’s hauntingly familiar. Hitler blamed the Jews for many of their issues. Trump blames others or outsider for our problems.
Trump targets the Mexicans and Chinese for our economic problems. He targets all Muslims, not just the terrorists, for what is happening on that front. Hitler promised to make Germany great again. Trump promises the same for America. People are getting roughed up and thrown out of Trump rallies for daring to utter a word contrary to what the mob believes. The same happened with the Nazis. I just get an eerie feeling that this is going to a very bad place. They dismissed Hitler when he first arrived on the scene much the way many dismiss Trump.
Don’t we realize where this sort of scapegoating can lead? What will be Trump’s cure for gang related shootings in the inner cities, for instance? I shudder to think. We should be above this sort of thing. This country is great because of our values and ideals. We cannot sacrifice those very values and ideals in an effort to defend ourselves against some perceived threat to those same ideals. We just can’t.
We think we’re too stable for something like this to ever occur here. And we most likely are. But all bets are off if there is a continued threat, whether it be a perceived threat or real. I hope what I’m saying is just crazy talk. But the truth is that the hairs on the back of my neck are at full attention with what I’m seeing and hearing. This just isn’t what this great country is about. We are better than this.
For all of those who just can’t stomach a Clinton presidency, there is a viable alternative. Gary Johnson is a common sense candidate right in the middle between the two extremes. He is the only one actually for less government. If you are a conservative who thinks Trump shares your values on that score, well, you’re sadly mistaken. Gary Johnson is the only true freedom candidate. He is the only small government candidate. He is the only common sense candidate.
Well…they are both demagogues. But demagogues are nothing new.
A major difference is that Hitler was also a pretty pure and consistent ideologue and as far as I can tell Trump is not. IMHO if Trump has any ideology other than self-interest it is so incoherent as to be effectively gibberish. But actually I just don’t think he has one in any meaningful sense. “I mean, say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it’s an ethos.”
But really the main reason not to compare Hitler and Trump is that it is unhelpful in a Godwinian sense. Hitler is Hitler - unless you are Pol Pot or somebody else in that category, it just isn’t worth the static to invoke his particular brand of Ultimate Evil.
Unfortunately his positions on Health care are that he will oppose any government programs to improve access to health for all Americans, not what the rest of the world and common sense would tell us after so many years of trying with the current irrational system we have. He is also unwilling to raise the minimum wage and he is also not looking to do much about climate change and to control emissions.
And the Fair Tax he is going on about sounds a lot like the Flat Tax, as believable as a flat earth. Not common sense IMHO.
Trump hasn’t formed a private army. He doesn’t have squads of White Shirts parading at his rallies. This, I think, is the very key element that is missing, and keeps Trump from being Hitlerian.
If he played up to the Militia/Posse Comitatus/Freemen of the Land/Sovereign Citizen gang, the comparison would be closer to accurate.
My gut tells me he is very similar. I realized this when yesterday someone mentioned in another thread that “if Trump loses, we will not have another fascist candidate for more than 20 years,” and at first my mind just went “yep, that’s true” instead of “wait, WHAT? That’s pretty divisive and inflammatory language.” During the Bush years, I bristled a little whenever anyone made the comparison, even in jest, even though I have never voted for a Republican*.
He has come closer to doing so than any other presidential candidate I can remember. He encouraged violence at his political rallies. He alludes strongly to political violence if he loses. There was a big ruckus when Sarah Palin’s security removed an anti-Palin sign at her appearance, which is nothing compared to what Trump has done.
If Trump loses, I do not expect any organized violence or lone-gunman incidents, but do not dismiss the possibility out of hand as I would with other elections.
*But to be fair to liberals, they called Bush a fascist less often than conservatives bashed liberals for supposedly doing so!
Yeah, this is a vanity thing for Trump. Not that his rhetoric doesn’t matter- he’s speaking from a position of influence so the jingoism, racism, and sexism coming from his pulpit are horrible and harmful regardless of what ideology he may personally hold onto in his heart. He may effectively be like Hitler but the two are quite different.
Trump’s extreme positions are opportunistic. He’s exploiting and angry subset of the population who feel they’ve been unjustly disadvantaged by the Other. Hitler actually came from that angry subset of the population who felt like they had been unjustly disadvantaged by the Other. He served, and was injured, in WWI. He wanted to remain in the army after the war and was angry that the demilitarization of Germany didn’t allow him that option. He immediately became politically active with ultra-nationalism and antisemitism being core ideals from the get-go.
Hitler could always plausibly justify to himself (an effectively projected the idea to enough other people) that he was the underdog working on behalf of the other underdogs. Hitler really had nothing to lose when he first became politically active and so had the drive to continue the fight no matter what. Trump is getting into the game late in life simply to add to his legacy. He is nowhere near as personally invested in this as Hitler was. When Trump loses, he’ll flip over the checkers board and pout. There’s no overreaching movement that he’ll remain committed to.
Johnson wants to abolish the IRS, essentially abolish Medicare and Social Security, abolish the FRB and return to gold standard — “common-sense” isn’t the one-word description that pops into my mind re: Gary Johnson.
But that’s irrelevant in this context. Johnson is not going to win in November. Casting a vote for Johnson is exactly the same as staying home, and therefore not casting a vote against Trump.
Consider the criminal Bundy gang, and their atrocious behavior with widespread support from rednecks. Now imagine these same rednecks riled up when Hillary the Evil Witch steals the election from their man.
Trumpists, already full of hate, will not shrug their shoulders when their country is stolen on November 8. Trump has already recommended “2nd Amendment” solutions. Danger lies ahead.
He’s a fascist. Does that make him exactly like Hitler? No, nor is he exactly like Mussolini, or Franco, or Tojo. And those men were not exactly like each other, either. But all of them were dangerous, and so is Trump.
I cam in here to say this. The parallels are much more striking between Trump / Mussolini than Trump and Hitler. Mussolini wanted to “make italy great again” by reviving the Roman Empire. He implemented heavy tariffs on imports. He was a opportunist when it came to foreign policy, opposing German expansion at first and then joining the Axis when it became to his benefit.
Trump’s idealogy is basically naked fascism, that strength justifies itself. You don’t need to be right if you’re strong. And it’s right that the strong should rule over the weak. This is mussolini’s brand of fascism exactly, it’s not really anything like Hitler’s national socialism.
Where’s the thread where Dopers can ask questions of Trump supporters?
I want to ask What do you think about Trump’s offhand “joke” of a 2nd Amendment solution to Hillary? Do Trump supporters pretend that this, “joke” or not, did not refer to assassination?
If Trump had the ability to do so, yeah he would be a dictator. If he had the ability to disband congress, suppress the media, punish and intimidate his political opponents, congregate all power in the executive branch, eliminate re-elections for his position, etc. yeah I’m sure he would. However there are too many checks and balances to prevent him from doing that, which Germany did not have.
After Hitler came to power he passed a handful of laws and decrees to abolish checks and balances, and to give himself dictatorial power. I do not forsee that with Trump.
I don’t know what leader I’d compare Trump to. Trevor Noah did a bit comparing him to dictators in Africa, he is probably more in their league than in Hitler’s league.
Yeah, I agree with this. Trump doesn’t really believe in any of the shit he says, and he can’t do any of the shit he says. Besides that, the reason he shouldn’t be president is that we don’t want a president who even says that shit.
Trump’s dumb ideas like building the wall and making Mexico pay, and the way his followers believe everything he says and that Mexico really will pay— remind me of Chairman Mao.
IMO it’s not really instructive to compare Trump and Hitler as individuals.
But if you look at the followers… here are two disturbingly similar groups of people who will say and do anything for the right leader. The only difference is that Hitler built his following, whereas in the US we have a following in search of their Hitler.
I don’t think Trump is Hitler, because he isn’t going to gain power, and if he did, he wouldn’t be able to execute. But right now we have a perfect storm that someone smarter and more charismatic might be able to exploit. That’s the part that scares me.
