I am not sure if this should be a GQ or GD thread…I will leave it to the Mods to decide.
With the election of Donald Trump there is no shortage of comparisons of Trump to Hitler’s rise to power. I am wondering what, if any, pushback there was to Hitler as he came to power (mainly in the media and people otherwise poking fun).
Currently there is no shortage of people making fun of Trump noting his authoritarian bent among other jabs.
Did Hitler need to get past anything similar?
For 1 thing there were a bunch of attempts to kill Hitler, most famous one a bomb went off near him but he was only slightly hurt. That was shown in the movie Valkyrie. I believe overall there were about 20 attempts to kill him.
The bomb was well into Hitler’s reign.
I am curious about his rise to power and if there was a strong opposition in the media to him.
Hitler’s rise to power was mostly based on the fact he was a great orator and quickly became the public face for Nationalism … so I have no idea why anyone would compare The Donald to him … Hitler was by no means stupid, just insane …
So the comparison to Hitler is unfair… to Hitler? How sad is that??
I think so … do you expect Kristallnacht in The Donald’s first term? … I honestly feel sorry for you if you do …
Do you honestly think the American People would tolerate, if not outright endorse, the slaughter of Muslims and Mexicans ???
The solution then in the 50’s was to roundem up and send them away. Unfortunately some times to their deaths.
I think that the same is doable now, because when death happens outside the border a good number of Americans do tolerate it.
The difference back then was that when the Mexicans did complain about people dying the operation was stopped. The US government then had some shame.
Given the direct comparison of Trump to Hitler, I think it’s impossible to keep this out of GD territory. Moved.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
A picture is worth 1000 words, but the words about the grim tale of the lone German refusing to salute Hitler are sad indeed:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/story-iconic-photo-man-defying-hitler-nazis/
And now that we are in GD I can add to my early post:
The difference back then was that when the Mexicans did complain about people dying the deportation operation was stopped. The US government then had some shame.
Not optimistic that the current administration has any.
Opposition prewar to Hitler was what you would expect. Newspapers writing articles of dissent. People expressing dissent. Attempts to rally around the disbanded political parties. Civil disobedience in some cases.
One of the big differences between Hitler and Trump is that Hitler tended to respond to adversaries… poorly. I.e. with violence. And he was allowed to primarily due to the Enabling Act which effectively removed any any check against Hitler’s power. Hitler didn’t just sweep opponents away instantly though. He did it over time and that’s what made it so effective. Also, Hitler was successful at improving the economic state of Germany although it was in such poor shape it would be hard to fail. The combination of moving slowly so that there was no big event to truly rally around and an improving economy meant that eventually the moderates were willing to accept National Socialism. Why wouldn’t they? It had worked. Once that happened it was all over and then it was possible to making the truly sweeping changes that he wanted. German resistance did continue through out the war, although it was of course completely underground.
Remember, in the 1930s, no one could imagine The Holocaust being a possibility. Even the T4 euthanasia program had to be rolled back because of public resistance. It was only war and captured territories that allowed the real horrors of Nazi Germany to happen. Remember that none of the extermination camps nor Einsatzgruppen actions took place on German soil.
I think you misunderstood my post, and that’s likely my fault. It just struck me as funny – no doubt inappropriately – that any comparison to Hitler could actually be unfair to Hitler.
As for my faith in the American people, I am an incurable and often unreasonable optimist… although I will admit my faith in them has been shaken as of November 9th. Every time I think, “Oh, they couldn’t possibly be so cruel/clueless/hard hearted/etc.,” I find I have overestimated. I am more cautious now.
The better comparison is with Mussolini. “Hitler” is just the internet being the internet.
I’m much hazier on Mussolini’s rise to power than Hitler’s, but I rather suspect the common factor was the perceived inability of the democratic political parties to form a coherent policy to deal with difficult economic circumstances and the fear of Communist revolution. In Germany, there was plenty of “normal” political opposition to Hitler, across the spectrum from Communists to royalist/nationalist conservatives, and plenty of opposition in a pretty vigorous press and literary/commentariat culture. Here are a couple of interesting cases in point:
Hitler and the Munich Post
The lawyer who put Hitler in the dock
Once the size of the Nazi and Communists blocs in parliament were enough to squeeze the “normal” dialogue and debate of democratic politics into an ever narrower area, and as street violence between Communists and Nazis increased, the apprehension of anything being better than a government that had seemingly lost control grew.
Though the Nazis did get the largest share of the vote in the last genuinely free elections, they did lose some support in the second election of 1932; but the Communists gained - which two facts might have emboldened the “respectable” conservative forces to think they could let him into government with them in control behind the scenes. But they made the mistake of letting him get his people in charge of police and justice and have his Enabling Act.
AFAIK something similar was behind the process that led Mussolini to start his “March on Rome” demanding to be allowed to take over from the old parties.
Even though you can’t compare Trump to Hitler on every single point, there are some revealing points of comparison. To say they are NOTHING alike and shut down the discussion is one of those things about this board that I commented on elsewhere:
No, Trump is not an “orator” as such, like Hitler, but crowds today do not respond to oratory as they did in the early part of the 20th century. People today don’t have the attention span to sit through a three-hour speech. However, Trump certainly has proved that he can rally crowds. And that the crowds believe his lies. He’s a bully and a “strong man” like Hitler and weak, stupid, uneducated people respond to that. (So do smart, educated people who want to use his agenda for their own purposes.) And he has an advantage over Hitler with a channel Hitler would have *killed *(as it were) to have: Twitter. This instantly reaches millions of people with sound bites that satisfy with flavor and no real content (just as any bite of a snack does) and don’t require (and in fact, discourage) critical thought. He’s feeding the crowds pablum and mental anesthesia and they are eating it up happily, like crack babies.
I think the following is a very smart reply:
Things that Trump did only a few months ago are now taken in stride as “business as usual.” The heat is being turned up under the pot of water and sadly, we’re getting used to it. How far will Trump go, and how far will Ryan, McConnell, et al., let him go? A year ago we would never have believed it would go this far.
I think it’s appropriate to keep making the comparisons to Hitler and to be very, very worried.
there were at least 11 tries to kill him before the war
Hitler became Chancellor on Jan 30, 1933.
29 days later, on Feb 27,1933, the Reichstag Fire Decree which nullified civil liberties was signed (by senile old von Hindenberg).
And 29 days after that, on Mar 22, 1933, the first concentration camp was opened at Dachau “for political prisoners”.
So 51 days after Hitler’s inauguration till the first concentration camp was opened.
It’s only been 8 days so far for Trump.
I loathe Trump. This is no secret, but I think comparing Trump to Hitler is not the right approach for two reasons:
1 - It prompts eye rolls because the so-and-so is Hitler has been done to death.
2 - He will never be identical to Hitler. Hitler was Hitler. He did what he did and unless Trump does the exact same thing you’ll will always have been saying “No no no it isn’t the same” or “No no no Trump hasn’t done X”.
In the thread similar to this on recognizing fascism I express a few things to look for:
This is a bit more objective than trying to compare a specific individual which if fraught with peril.
I will say I don’t think Trump is a fascist at heart in that I don’t think he wants to be a President-for-Life. I think if he starts going down the fascist path it would be kind of by accident. For example, say the automakers close plants he might say the US gov’t it taking them over so people will stay employed. I think Trump is mainly ego driven as opposed to ideology driven. He wants people to love him. He wants to have a golden legacy. This doesn’t make it any better, but just my thoughts.
In fact, I always thought that if the US were ever going to have a fascist-like leader it would be a Democrat implementing policies “for the nation’s own good.” I always thought there was no way that the Republicans and their supporters would ever support somebody who would even joke about taking away American liberties and freedoms. When Trump said “We should just cancel the election and declare me the winner” I really thought that was it. There’s no way such a joke will fly with the American electorate. Well, I was very wrong.
Again, just my ramblings.