No, you’re missing the same points that you’ve been missing all along and I’m sure will continue to miss. The humor, sometimes dark humor, that has occasionally manifested in this thread is the humor of exposing the irrational inconsistencies and hypocrisies among the self-styled pro-lifers. Secondly, the pro-choice position is not and has never been “pro abortion”, which is an intentionally provocative and defamatory label invented by the pro-lifers, whose own self-designation cleverly connotes that if you’re not pro-life, you must be “pro-death”. The pro-choice position is clearly described by its name, no mind games here – it’s clearly and emphatically about choice, choice in a very difficult and very personal domain where neither science nor philosophy provides clear or easy answers.
This is not a challenge specifically to you, but I’d be very interested in seeing some kind of poll on this. It’s one of those things that I could easily believe could come down either way.
I agree, and I think a lot depends on how the question is asked, and also what demographic you are polling.
The truth is that many conservatives, especially among the younger and more moderate demographic, are coming around to the view that support of gay rights issues like marriage and adoption actually reflect social conservative values, and is an opportunity to expand their base without compromising other key beliefs. There’s no such impetus driving conservatives to more liberal views of abortion, so a disconnect may be emerging between traditional social conservative views on those two issues.
That said, here’s my 2¢ worth of speculation. Traditional social conservatives (e.g.- Mr. Rick “Sweater-vest” Santorum) still condemn all gays to fiery damnation, and much would depend on what the poll was asking. Ask about gay adoption in isolation, and you’ll get lots of condemnation. Ask about gay adoption where the child will be loved and well treated vs. a conventional adoption where it might not be, and I’ll bet in a large number of cases hatred of teh gay will override the professed concern for children (concern for children after birth has never been a strong point with conservatives, anyway) and will be rationalized with some blather about “lifestyle”. But ask about gay adoption as the only available alternative to an abortion, and I’ll bet you’ll get a lot of righteous assent which will turn out to be entirely hypocritical, the way that political advocates always say in polls that sure they are absolutely going to vote, yet the voting turnout belies those righteous claims, or how everyone always denies being a bigot.
[quote=“Annie-Xmas, post:281, topic:688063”]
Life begins at conception. Fertilized eggs are conceived, having unique DNA. So, it’s as much of a baby as an embryo or fetus.
What? Life begins at conception, but it becomes a baby at implementation? How is it any different? Am I a different person if I move into a new house?[/QUOT
Life began centuries ago, there is human life in a man’s sperm, so even if there is a conception many human lives are lost. Life is a passed on thing.Even if you believe the Adam and Eve story Life was passed on. If a man’s sperm is not alive there will be no conception!
To give credit where credit Is due, the idea originally came from an episode of Law & Order: SVU where Munch and Finch were investigating the theft of a container containing frozen embryos.
Lady: We believe those embryos should be implanted in volunteers and put up for adoption.
Finch: That will make a lot of gays and lesbians very happy.
Lady: We only favor adoption to the right couples.
Finch: Yeah. Straight, white and Christian.
Lady: We are not prejudiced. Christians come in all colors.
The above post is FINN, dammit. I think of Finn and Munch as “Finch.” Great deadpan comedy team.
Once when discussing gay marriage with a real opinionated protestor, he tried to convince me that someone legally marriage their dog in Australia. To which I replied “Gay marriage isn’t legal in Australia. Look it up.” Jesus H. Christ, anyone can have a ceremony and call it marriage, but that don’t make it legal.