The 1900 Galveston Storm remains the worst natural disaster in US history. Death estimates range from 6,000 to 12,000–8,000 is the most accepted figure. The dead were weighed down & buried at sea but they washed up on shore again.
Finally, funeral pyres were used, with the body handlers supplied with liquor to help with the dreadful task. Most of them were African-American men who had little choice about taking the job…
Like Acsenray, I must also express sincere frustration and annoyance at this being perpetrated. This is not something that happens now. India has many problems to start with; please don’t pile more on top.
And please give me a cite that suicide is illegal in the US? What are they going to do, arrest the deceased? Attempted suicide, maybe.
Grrr.
Yes, this is indeed the case - they let my cousin do it for my mother (I, as a daughter cannot do it).
Your own cite indicates that it’s illegal in India as well as the States. (And the Wikipedia article also makes it clear how rare it is.)
Yes, that’s why I phrased my post as I did, rather than ‘Pyres can’t be allowed b/c Hindu widows are always forced to self-immolate and since suicide’s forbidden in the States pyres are forbidden.’ I didn’t say it was common. I know it’s rare. Just b/c we in this thread know it’s a now baseless stereotype doesn’t mean the US population in general and lawmakers in particular know that. As recently as 2002 I was taught it was common by a religion prof who lived for a year in an ashram and heard it from a FOAF.
Yes, pardon me, ATTEMPTING suicide is illegal. And assisting suicide is legal in some states, illegal in others. Successfully committing suicide has its own punishment/reward, I suppose.
Where does this religion professor teach?
He taught at Oakland Community College in Michigan on the Farmington Campus; I understand he’s retired to enjoy life w/ the student he married on break the year after I had him for Religions.
Why do you ask?
I’m an American, and I, like I think most people, only know it as to be sung on New Year’s. I was surprised when I saw a Brit movie/TV scene where it was sung when congratulations were offered.
Did I get that right? (About England–I think-- usage).
BTW, I still don’t know the words mean.
My brother always used to say that if they caught you trying to off yourself, you would be sentenced to life.
Thing you probably do not want to do is attend a Tibetan Sky Burial (look it up yourself, on an empty stomach).
The Zoroastrian funerals mentioned above are pretty much the same thing, but w/o the chopping.
Is that really your experience on this message board? I get the impression that we’re being subject to s chip on your shoulder.
It is not even remotely plausible to me that American public policy on cremation has anything to do with Hindus, who have been a tiny minority and largely unknown until very recently if then. So you have any concrete reason to believe there’s any possibility that this is true?
I posited a theory relating to the OP’s (corrected) question. You’re not a peer reviewing my work; if you don’t like it, move on.
I assume you don’t mean to say Hindus in general ‘have been a tiny minority and largely unknown until very recently if then’ in the US, correct? Did you mean Hindu funeral pyres?
It seems pretty evident to me that he does mean Hindus in general. Wikipedia says Hindus are 0.5 % of the population in the US, so it is also pretty evident that he’s right.
My WAG: Hindus in the USA tend to be concentrated in urban or suburban areas. Fire codes in these areas prevent having big funeral pyres in, say, someone’s backyard. There are not a lot of suitably open spaces available for this use, so it is easier for many Hindus to just use a regular crematorium.
Maybe it’s b/c I grew up in the diverse area of Metropolitan Detroit, but I’ve known of Hindus my whole life; to say they’re a minority is one thing, but to say they’re ‘relatively unknown until very recently if then’ is a whole other thing. Hindus in America didn’t suddenly pop up into the national consciousness when people heard the name Bobby Jindal.
They certainly popped up long after institution of laws concerning burning bodies in the open. So far as I know, there has never been any public scandal, discussion, disagreement, whatever regarding Hindus wanting to have open funeral pyres and governments suppressing that desire.
Look beyond your own lifetime. It was only during the Johnson administration that large numbers of Indians were able to migrate to the United States. And it was only during the tech boom of the 1990s that cultural awareness of Indians started growing beyond doctors, engineers, and professors. I can’t recall any public dispute during that time regarding Hindu funeral practices within the borders of the United States.
The population of Hindus in the States have increased something like 50% in the 2000s. After your professor gave his ignorant and erroneous report.
And in my experience Americans still know very little about Hindu cultural practices. I wear an Om on my wrist; almost no one knows what it is or even recognizes it. I grew up in a predominantly Hindu community but they clustered together, and back in the 80s Hindus were new to the extent that the Dot Busters were big news, trying to get rid of these new people.
You might think that you know Hindus, but your post about suttee, of all things, frankly shows that you do not. Suttee is not something that was ever considered in the West when it came to burial rites; it’s not really even considered in the East, is what we are trying to tell you. Rather, Christians bury, Muslims bury, and Jews do too. The Abrahamic god dictated what rites would be considered “correct” and I think we just went from there.
ETA: Here is the Straight Dope Report on suttee.
It seems like my posts are getting garbled by those responding angrily and defensively, as though they’re skimming them or reading more into them than I wrote or being obtuse.
My college prof told a story he’d heard thirdhand; I didn’t say I or anyone in class believed it, simply that he related it. Suttee is something that was still being talked about. That doesn’t mean it still happens, it simply means it’s still talked about. His story has no effect on an increase or not in Hindu population and to extrapolate it to **that **extent is a real stretch and shows either lazy comprehension or deliberately obtuse misunderstanding. I’ve made it clear I know it’s not still done. I did not say that it is.
To say I don’t know Hindus b/c I made a WAG about why funeral pyres may not be permitted in the States is ridiculous; shall I ring the Hindus I’m acquainted w/ and let them know that I don’t actually know them? I’ve never discussed suttee w/ them; frankly we rarely discuss religious topics. They’re people I’m friends with, not people I study.
Sati is a touchy subjects for many Hindus - sort of like black lynchings for many white Americans.
Death rites are important in all cultures. The Judeo-Christian emphasis was on the body and the Greek/Hindu emphasis was on the soul and hence the preservation of the body and the liberation of the soul respectively. Although not specifically instructed in the new testament, the Catholic church banned cremations in the late 1800s and i think they allowed it back in the 60’s. Romans practiced cremations before Christianity took over.
Okay, just answer one question clearly then –
What reasons are there to believe that state, local, or municipal governments in the United States created policy regarding the cremation of bodies on the basis that they were afraid that Hindus might force widows to jump in the pyre?