There’s an acquaintance I speak to occasionally on topic-focused forms of social media, and whom I’ve met once. He seems like a generally chill, stable person. But he’s a libertarian, and he’s expressed opinions (not in my direct presence) that imply that he believes that COVID is overblown and that mail-in voting is suspect, and I am a flaming lefty.
He doesn’t SEEM to be a MAGA-not, against reasonable discussion, or particularly contemptuous of any unchangeable quality of who and what I am, but it does make me slightly uncomfortable to know these things about him. For his part, he seems to like/respect me as a friend/acquaintance.
What, if anything, should I do to overcome my discomfort? How do you deal with such situations? (The less “extreme” the opinions, the harder this question gets, IMO, so take that as you will.)
Just for what it’s worth, I want to make my own leanings clear. I’m registered Libertarian (because it limits the junk I get from the two major parties) and identify myself as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. Second, I am in Colorado, which is 100% mail in anyway, so I’m going to have a definite perspective there.
Okay, so having said all that, first I’m glad @Leaper is willing to try to communicate still even if there is an implied difference in opinion between you two: keeping up communication is the only way I think we have a chance to overcome differences. Remind yourself of this, that we are trying to overcome ignorance, and this may be a chance!
In such circumstances, my main two tools are Lurking, in which since it’s a social media forum, I try to track down the person’s posts on the subject or similar subjects. Have they explained why this is their viewpoint? Is it something they’ve already defended to the death before I bring it up again? This is going to avoid poking someone where they are already set.
If the first technique comes up with nothing, or it looks like they are willing to argue merits, then I ask open ended questions about their opinion. At which point I start the dialogue, which is the goal. Win minds and improve them. If they aren’t willing to argue on merits, I normally say “I respect your opinion, but disagree.” I’m not going to change them, but earn no respect by badgering them. In the case of more . . . extreme POV (ie I find someone is a White Power type), I’ll probably not follow up with that person ever again.
I live in Trumplandia. I am surrounded by people with different political opinions than myself. My family has very different political opinions than myself.
There are some that I enjoy having a debate with, that even though we have different opinions, we still respect eachother’s right to them, and there are others who I have no desire to discuss much with.
Some people try to start up a conversation with an insult directed at democrats. I simply ignore the statement and continue on. If they get pushy about it, I lie, and tell them that I don’t follow politics much, I’ll even play the false equivalence, “they’re both bad” game sometimes, even though I really hate it when people do that (and the reason that this is not, IMHO hypocrisy, is that I am not offering my opinion. If I were to inject myself into a debate and say that they are both bad, I’m just shitting and poisoning it. However, if someone unsolicited asks my opinion, I have no obligation to give it to them).
If I am visiting my parents, and they bring up politics, I silently get up and leave. That’s seemed to work relatively well. They don’t bring up politics very often anymore.
I’m not sure about that. Trying to get people to change their mind often backfires and makes them become more entrenched in their belief as they think their “belief is under attack” even if you’re simply trying to correct misinformation.
My wife is a little farther from centre than I am, and her parents and sisters are as far from centre as she is, but in the other direction. We get along fine, and almost never discuss politics.
I am quite conservative, but I am just as comfortable with people who have different political opinions from mine as I am with people who share my opinions (else I wouldn’t be here). The reason is, I am not so egotistical as to believe that anyone who disagrees with me must be defective somehow.
This is often true, that’s why I don’t start by challenging them immediately. That will absolutely get their hackles up. Again, first I Lurk, then I ask why (because people LOVE to give their reasons), and only argue if they’re willing to to discuss merits. This is NOT going to help with someone who has already made up their mind, but the OP indicated that the subject’s comments have been on the level of implication. There may be room to discuss.
You know, I’ve been hearing a lot lately, especially with black community leaders: “If we’re going to get past this, we are going to have to have some very uncomfortable conversations. Avoiding these conversations just to get alone isn’t helping.”
My family is right wing and religious. I’m not and not. We don’t talk politics and religion much, because it never goes well. Nobody is under the illusion that they can convince the other of anything. That said, we get along really good as long as everybody colors within the lines, as we usually do.
At the level of generalization, I’m a lefty, even a radical lefty. But I don’t fit in smoothly among the participants in the radical left or the liberal mainstream. So I’m used to political friction. There are people who disagree but are willing to play the “OK for the sake of argument” game and listen. There are others who aren’t.
I’m willing to engage with right-leaning conservatives and beyond if they, too, are willing to actually engage and not just play “Can I out-insult you or out-shout you down?”
I don’t feel comfortable around people who feel that me or my friends deserve to die or to not be treated with equal human rights. If you want to de-legalize my friends’ marriages, ‘personally choose’ not to wear a mask, or think that black lives don’t matter, I will only be around you as much as I have to, but I don’t want you in my personal life at all.
A lot of people (notably on this board) like to pretend like politics is something that you talk about in the abstract, but politics in actuality is about stating who counts as an actual person, and who should be killed or allowed to die from easily preventable/treatable causes. You can pull out that old Thomas Jefferson quote, but remember that it wasn’t him that people were voting to whip and force into hard labor, and it wasn’t his wife that people were voting to be allowed to rape.
This is a great example of why it is important to have friends with different political opinions. If you only associate with people like you it is easy to see those who disagree with you as evil. Groupthink and echo chambers are not ways to find truth.
I actually long for people of opposing opinions to speak their views; if they’re intelligent and can be involved in an adult give and take conversation. I take no joy and have no need to sit around in an echo chamber.
I work in a very conservative industry with youngin’s who have grown up privileged and are influenced by their parents’ views. Understandable; we all are.
Unfortunately, many of them are just parroting, so when challenged, they have nothing thoughtful to put forth. I kick my own arse to preface everything with " we’re just talking; nobody’s right or wrong. No hard feelings", but there’s rarely any takers.
It’s sort of like the canard about knowing how to tell if someone is an atheist or a vegan because they’ll tell you. Only in this case it’s true. I feel a lot less comfortable around people whose opinions I know differ from mine because they’re also the ones who can’t shut up about it and won’t change their minds or even have a civil logical discussion about it. People whose political opinions differ from mine but don’t voice them obviously don’t make me uncomfortable, which seems like it should go without saying, but it’s not like I’d refuse to hang out with 30+ percent of Americans if knew what they were really thinking.
It’s rarely a problem. There’s enough religious conservatives in my family who believe in conspiracy theories that I’m used to not talking politics. (I have one family member who always talks politics when I speak to her, which is annoying.)
I only have a problem if people can’t shut up about politics. There’s a reason people should avoid talking about politics or religion with people they hardly know.
As some of you know, I used to argue this stuff religiously. I even have a degree in political science, for God’s sake.
Some of you might also have noticed that I rarely show up anymore for the discussions, and there’s a reason for that. First off, I no longer subscribe to the same things I did 20 years ago. War, life, truth, and the simple passage of time has changed me profoundly. Second, I’ve come to realize that arguing about it accomplishes nothing, and it takes a lot of effort to move people off of their opinions. Last, in this climate if you’re still wearing Trump 2020 stuff I have no desire to talk to you because you support a criminal who is ripping you off and destroying your country and you’re too stupid to figure that out so anything I say is wasted on you.
My mother once told me that I should never try to teach a pig to sing, because it wastes your time and annoys the pig. Truer words have never been spoken. I simply go about my business and try to stifle my visible disgust at the people who are proud to support Trump, and by extension his policies, which is akin to wearing something that says “I’m a racist, xenophobic, economic idiot who supports someone who represents the closest thing to fascism we have ever seen in this country”.
People who want to persecute me and my friends are evil, it’s not a matter of ‘seeing them as evil’. Acknowledging the stark reality that people who say “I won’t wear a mask, I have a healthy immune system, only weak and old people die from this virus” are literally saying that they don’t give a shit if I die, and that they aren’t willing to accept an incredibly minor inconvenience to keep people like me from dying. Plus, in this case, they’re an active danger to me to be around, as their ‘political position’ is that they’re willing to help spread a very dangerous disease. Same thing with people who support discrimination against trans people in medicine; they literally want to protect someone who would leave my partner and people close to me bleeding out in the street after answering a 911 call - like actually happened to Tyra Hunter https://genprogress.org/on-20th-anniversary-of-tyra-hunters-death-lgbt-people-are-still-waiting-for-basic-protections/
There’s a big difference between “I only want an echo chamber” and “I will not involve people who want me or my friends dead in my personal life.”
It’s a simple matter of disagreement: Person A believes that Person B is a degenerate second-class citizen whom everyone else should be allowed to discriminate against in terms of housing, schooling, employment, commerce, justice and pretty much every other area of society as has traditionally been the case for generations, and Person B doesn’t believe that. Just a difference of opinion!
I have relations that are solid Trump supporters, ranging from “traditionally conservative” to “batshit crazy”. I can get along with them just fine and I don’t try to convince them how to vote, but I do try to politely and constructively debunk blatant falsehoods they subscribe to when I can. It’s not about left vs right; it’s about truth vs lies.
Well, the person in question and I finally had a politically related conversation, though he did most of the talking. It was what in other circumstances might’ve been a Gish gallop of how doctors are profiting from overdiagnosing COVID and how mail in voting is rife with fraud and such.
After it was over, I didn’t feel as angry as I thought I’d be. I just felt… sad and drained. He’s genuinely afraid of a shooting civil war over controversial election results, genuinely concerned for my personal safety. He’s sacrificing a lot to get somewhere he feels is safer, and he’s not entirely sure he’ll ever hear from me again by 2021. I wish he could see that some of the very politicians he loathes are responsible for some of his beliefs. He’s just been badly manipulated, and I think that, just as much as the differences in politics, is complicating how I feel about our “relationship,” if not more. It’s honestly depressing.