How common is knowledge of the MGRS among US Military

Factual Questions
1

And if it matters - marines in particular.

I have a friend who I have known for a few years that was a former marine. He did not volunteer this information - I suspected it based on his mannerisms and some things he said and told me he was. He has never bragged about it and although I’ve seen him every week or two for the past few years - he has probably brought it up a total of six times - if that. This is typical of those I’ve known that have been in the service.

Nothing he has done or said had ever made me question his service, except for this one incident:

I was showing him some of the (what I think are cool) iPhone apps I use - one of which is heads up display type tracking GPS app that overlays all sorts of data including coordinates using the MGRS (Military Grid Reference System) which looks more like letters and number than traditional Lat/Long:

4QFJ1234567890

9Basically the first part kind of picks the part of the world it is in - and the longer the number - the more specific the resolution.

I’ve always been interested in measuring things - so I learned about what this was a while ago, but has served no practical purpose for me other than being able to better understand very occasional leaked documents.)

Anyway - when I showed him the app - I mentioned - “see it has all kinds of cool data - even this which you probably remember form your time in the Marines.”

His response was something like “What is that? No we always used latitude and longitude - I’ve never seen that before”

I’m a very suspicious person, so there was a part of me that got suspicious, but I immediately shut it down as I could understand that just cause something is called the MGRS and I’ve seen it on leaked documents - doesn’t mean everyone in the military would use it - and he’s never given me any other reason to doubt him.

It also wouldn’t surprise me that he may have “seen” it but didn’t remember it - cause there was always traditional coordinates available - and other than the use of paper maps - I’m not sure how useful the MGRS would be compared to traditional systems. I could see it having been more useful before the advent of handheld GPS as being a sort of ADC guide for the military.

Anyway - I’m 99.9% sure this guy is on the up and up - so this is more of a general curiosity thing than anything else.

For those that served - did you use it - and did it’s use change over time? How common was it and did you ever find use for it out of the military?

I got the impression, but am not 100% certain he served post 9/11. If someone served I generally got the impression it was considered not polite to berate them with questions about their service unless they show an interest in talking about it - so I generally don’t pry.

2

Early 90’s I had a semester long one credit Army ROTC course on map reading. The course never covered MGRS.

3

Last year I was out doing a field survey with two former Marines and they both were familiar with it. I’m not sure if they learned it in the Marines though.

4

MGRS is the standard for the Army, although folks deal with Lat/Long as well depending on the job. The Air Force and Navy both use Lat/Long primarily. I’m not actually sure what the Marines use, some of both maybe?

5

I know I am not US military (sorry for jumping in). In Canada, we all learn nine-figure grid references and are refreshed and tested annually.

6

Some people, even ex-military, can’t understand a simple road map. Perhaps your friend never became competent with the grid system and was allowed to take a pass?

7

I’d think that it would be more likely that Marines and Soldiers would be familiar with it, if only because they navigate by it and call in artillery and air strikes using it. I’d imagine that officers for sure, and probably most senior NCOs would definitely be proficient, and most enlisted men might be familiar with it.

I don’t know if your average Airman might have much reason to be familiar with the grid system, and the same for your average Sailor.

8

I was an Army Huey pilot from 80-85. Never heard of it. We used 1:50,000 topo maps for everything.

9

How could you use military 1:50 maps without using the military grid system? You didn’t use 6,8, or 10 digit grid coordinates to pinpoint a location? Maybe you didn’t know it by the acronym but if you were in the Army you certainly used it.

10

I was 27 years in the Army both active and national guard. Started off as an aerial scout/navigator in scout helicopters.In aviation we learned about maps using Lat/long but I only used it on a couple of occasions for long range cross country flights. 99% of what we did used the grid system. I don’t know why anyone who didn’t fly an airplane or pilot a ship over long distances would learn lat/long in the military especially in the Army or Marines. Basic land navy is done using military maps with grids. Calling in artillery uses grids. Military GPS uses grids. Calling in a 9 line medevac request requires a grid. I’ve never done anything were they asked for anything but grids. It’s military standard.

11

FYI MGRS is standard for all NATO countries so all NATO military maps use it.

12

MGRS is the only grid reference I have ever used. Maybe its not that relevant to all MOS’s, but MGRS is my bread and butter. I recall once logging into a system that asked for LAT/LONG data and I actually said out loud, “What is this? Who the **** actually uses LAT/LONG?” Maybe previous generations did things differently, but the modern generation learns it in Basic, so there is no excuse for not knowing it.

I can’t speak for the Marines. If the Navy uses LAT/LONG more often, I would expect the Marines would go along with whatever precedent the Navy sets. That said, I thought joint forces doctrine existed specifically to make sure all the services are on the same sheet of music. It seems weird to me that Marines, who often operate on land, would not be familiar with MGRS.

13

Sorry for the multipost.

The confusion of your friend might come from the format you showed him. As just the normal grunt on the ground it doesn’t usually look like you posted it.

4QFJ1234567890

In most cases the 4Q is dropped. That covers a very large area and unless you traveling across the globe you don’t need it.

The FJ indicates a 100 km square. The numbers pinpoint a more precise area. A soldier or Marine would normally be given a 8 or 10 digit grid coordinate which looks like this:

FJ 1234 6789 or FJ 12345 67890

It’s broken up because one part of the numbers indicate the horizontal axis and the other the vertical in the grid.

I don’t know about the Navy or Air Force but it is basically impossible for a soldier or Marine to never have see it. It’s considered a basic soldier skill. Learned in Basic Training or Boot Camp. You have to know navigation in case you equipment fails. Batteries die, maps don’t.

14

I was in the Navy (submarine force), and was never formally taught MGRS, though I was aware of its existence. We used LAT/LONG pretty much exclusively for navigation.

It would seem that MGRS would most likely come up when dealing with other services, such as naval gunfire support (i.e. shore bombardment), but I was never involved in that during my career.

Modern U.S. attack submarines do carry Tomahawk Land Attack Missiles (TLAMs), but I was never involved in TLAM targeting in that level of detail, either.

15

Just used straight 8 digit coordinates. Never heard the acronym but guess it was what we used.

16

So, your paper map is on the dead guy still in the blown up HumV and all you have is a hand held GPS so you are SOL in calling for help because no one understands Lat-Lon or even has a map with Lat-Lon marks on it so they won’t even try to send help???

Sometimes the paper maps get lost and the GPS is still working but no one is taught how to use anything else?

Of course back in the ‘almost still a brown shoe ARMY’ of my day we did not have no stinkin GPS and not every person had paper so manys da time we were SOL.

I wonder what military service ( ARMY ) I was in where we were not only never taught MGRS, but never saw that kind of map in use. I saw them but they were usually in stacks in the latrines along with the sears catalogs.

I most certainly did not use them. ( Maybe I was an Officers mess dish washer in DC… ya think? ) :wink:

17

This strikes me as strange. The grid zone designator covers a truly huge chunk of territory, so I can see how you might get by without that. But without a 100,000 meter square identifier, there is no way to know what page of the map you are on. Even a 1:50,000 scale map can have multiple 100k meter square identifiers on it, if the map location falls on the border of two squares.

18

Military GPS systems give coordinates in MGRS and even civilian aps often have the option.

19

I joined in 1989 and it was long established as a soldier level task taught at the lowest level. Privates are expected to pass a land nav course with a map, compass, and protractor.

20

Most of the time we were in our operations area on the ranges and weren’t using maps. For off base VFR flights we used VFR sectionals. IFR flights used the instrument charts.