I’m sorry Americans, I like you and all, and most of you are great people. Hell, I married one of you.
But the arrogant, malicious and downright low practice of punishing our nationals for something they did in their own country is reprehensible.
Don’t like the fact that we think your trade embargo is an incredibly silly, ineffective and outdated policy? Cope with it. That’s your problem, not ours.
Yup. Go ahead and punish him for any trading he did while living in the U.S. If he has done so, then he has broken your laws and should be held accountable. Anything he did while a citizen and resident of his home country is none of your fucking business.
And don’t try to blame it on the pompousness and arrogance of a select few in the judicial system. My finger is pointing directly at the 12 upstanding and honest citizens of Philadelphia who have the infuckingcredible gall to convict Mr. James Sabzali.
So…are you trying to say that Canada’s a different country? And all this time, I thought it was the 51st state…
You’re right, stupid fucking arrogant Americans. I like the attorneys statement “Foreign nationals cannot aid and abet violations of U.S. law.” Err…foreign nationals on their home soil are under no obligation whatsoever to uphold US law, you stupid fuck.
I hate Americans more and more with each passing day.
As an American, I would agree that this is a gross miscarriage of justice. We would, in no way, put up with this sort of crap. I hope the Canadian government steps in for this unfortunate individual.
So, a Canadian executive knows of the law in question; he works for a US company that sought counsel for how to get around this law; then said executive, along with several others, gets tagged for his illegal conduct.
So, do they teach Canadian schoolchildren to read the entire article before blaming the big, bad United States? Your OP ignores some crucial points:[list=1][li]“At least seven of the convictions against Mr. Sabzali are for violations that occurred while he was living and doing business in Canada.”[/li][li]“From 1992 to 1996 Mr. Sabzali lived in Hamilton, frequently travelling to Cuba to sell goods on behalf of the international subsidiary of an American firm, Bro-Tech Corp.”[/li][li]"‘Foreign nationals cannot aid and abet violations of U.S. law,’ Assistant U.S. Attorney Joseph Poluka told the jury in his summation last week. Wednesday, he praised the jury’s decision."[/li][/list=1] It is not illegal for a foreign citizen outside the United States to trade with Cuba. It is illegal for a foreign citizen outside the United States to cause an American company to trade with Cuba.
In short, go brew some beer or play hockey or something.
Except that it wasn’t illegal where he was doing it.
This is like a dry county arresting a bar owner who lives and works in another town. They’re overstepping their jurisdiction by a ridiculous degree, and I would be very surprised if this case did not result in the law being overturned by the Supreme Court.
Well, I think the trade embargo against Cuba is silly, but prosecuting the guy isn’t exactly blazing new legal trails. Remember, trading with Cuba is illegal in the United States, it’s not simply some governmental trade policy. If you aid and abet an illegal act, even if you are outside the US, you are criminally liable when you come to the US.
Don’t focus on the actual law being broken. Use another law for an example. If this guy had aided in a contract killing in the US he would be criminally liable in the US even if his actions took place in Canada. Hell, if he aided in a contract killing in Belgium he’d be liable in Belgium. This isn’t unique to the US.
So, while you can argue that the underlying law is stupid, the prosecution is not some new imperialistic American invention.
It may not have been illegal under Afghan law for Usama bin Laden to conspire with others in America to destroy the WTC. But, if we ever catch that sucker, we’ll sure prosecute him under US law.
I’m not crazy about Helms-Burton. However, the other alternatives are also problematic.
We could militarily overthrow Castro.
Or, we could leave Castro in power, meaning that millions of Cubans continue to live in misery.
Or, we can try something like Helms-Burton, which won’t end communism, and which pisses people off.
What I read in the article is that this guy broke US law on US soil as well as performing the same acts while not a citizen of the US and not in the US.
The guy should be convicted for those counts where he was in the US breaking US law.
I fail to see how the guy can be convicted for obeying Canadian law while a citizen of Canada residing in Canada. For that, the US has overstepped its bounds.
Damn, I forgot this bit. The difference (or similarity, depending on how you look at it) is that the crime was comitted on US soil. Then, see previous post re: in canada v in US.
More accurately, it’s like a company in a dry county that owns a bar in a wet county. This is a stickier situation. I feel sorry for the guy, but I don’t think there was any gross violation of rights.
Because his actions aided an American company in breaking an American law. His location and citizenship really don’t matter. If he had done this for a Canadian company then he wouldn’t have been prosecuted by the US. But his actions aided an illegal act in the United States.
Except that, in this case, had he obeyed American law he would have been breaking Canadian law. According to us, it’s this guys fault for not having the common sense to not live in Canada?
Minty - I can read the article just fine thank you very fucking much.
(bolding mine)
" At least seven of the convictions against Mr. Sabzali are for violations that occurred while he was living and doing business in Canada."
" While Mr. Sabzali faces a total of 205 years in prison on the many counts, prosecutors have recommended a sentence of up to 51 months."
WTF???
You’d think he was caught selling crack to kids on the streetcorner… while dressed as a nun. Why don’t you just hang him? Wait… hanging’s too good for him… he should be ripped up into itty bitty pieces!
It really boggles the fucking mind.
I’m going to protest this by going down to the tobaccanist and smoking one of those big smelly Cuban cigars and say a hearty “fuck you” to the assclowns on the jury".
Should I then expect to be arrested the next time I travel to the States because in doing so I supported a regime that is unpopular with the U.S?
The problem here is with the Canadian law. They passed a law in response to Helms-Burton that attempts to say that anything a US subsidiary does in Canada can’t be punished in America. Sorry, but that’s not the way it works. People are indignant that the US allegedly tried to “dictate” Canada’s foreign policy yet Canada has tried to usurp the US’s sovereignty by attempting to tell the US what they can and can not punish.
I feel sorry for this guy. But the legal principles used to prosecute him are used by many other nations. He aided a US company in breaking a US law. If I aid a Canadian company in breaking a Canadian law I’m criminally liable in Canada no matter what the US thinks about it.
If you think Helms-Burton is a bad law, I’m right there with you. But this is a basic issue of extraterritoriality and sovereignty.
Like I said, any acts committed in the U.S. while working for a U.S. company, should be punished, and more power to them. No problems.
However, prior to moving to the U.S., he worked in Canada for a Canadian subsidiary of an American company. As such, he (and his company) were obligated to follow Canadian law:
Last I heard, American law did not supercede all other countrys’ when it come to international trading.
