I realize this sounds presumptuous, but understand I’m saying it as an atheist in the context of having once been a charismatic Christian.
Here is my pitiful attempt, from another thread, to explain my typical Sunday morning experience as a believer:
I understand awe at the natural world. I understand the concept of feeling a part of something bigger than you. I understand how amazed I am that cheese exists (ya’ll think I’m exaggerating my feelings about cheese, but I’m really not.) I understand the depth of feeling associated with human love. But nothing in my atheistic life has remotely approached the experience described above. I concede that this is an experience outside of the mainstream even for Christians, but it is certainly an example of religious ecstasy. When I was religious, I could basically summon euphoria at will. It was like having an endless supply of drugs with no negative side-effects.
My experience as a Buddhist has been a lot more low-key and completely different, but it’s still a different experience than when I had no spiritual framework whatsoever. If it wasn’t different in a positive way, I wouldn’t be a Buddhist.
We know, from research, that religious people are generally happier. We know, from research, that severely mentally ill people who apply Buddhist principles to their lives experience significant improvement in their symptoms. That doesn’t mean there is a God. It doesn’t mean The Noble Eightfold Path is objectively true. But it does mean that pragmatically, religion can be a good thing. I believe it can be a force for good, I believe it can help and motivate people, and though theism may not be the appropriate belief system for me, I really don’t see any meaningful difference between my religious ‘‘beliefs’’ and theirs. I don’t think religion is something you can reason yourself into or out of. I did not choose to become an atheist and I see no point in maligning other people for beliefs they most likely have no control over.
If it’s not obvious, I have really, really enjoyed this discussion, and the contributions of everyone in this thread. Even those I haven’t directly responded to have given me serious food for thought.
I think you have not looked carefully or enough, and BTW I was also like you, but Catholic in the extreme when I was young.
And this is what Carl Sagan referred to when he said that religious people are insisting that their god is a small one. The research actually points to finding solutions that do not depend on faith to make them work. I could say here that faith now (not before, but as usual it does not accept progress) is preventing progress to comprehensive cures as it would seem the solution would ruffle many feathers.
Me too, I still want to put my religious cap from time to time (born a Catholic you will always remain that for your family) if just for the chance of remembering acts that showed better examples of righteousness that in the past generated more **hatred **from supposedly more religious beings.
It involved stopping a fight in catholic school grounds, all the crowd of students wanted to see a couple of 7th graders go to fist fights. I was usually the one that stopped those fights as a senior and only got the hatred of all other students.
I still see it in my interactions with many religious people, they really go bananas not when you point at their flaws, but when you demonstrate with actions that you can show even more righteousness than they are capable of.
Just curious - Are there any websites that are not overrun with atheists? (Obviously not counting religious websites. ) I have read several times here that this place is very typical of other sites.
Well, once again that works by keeping the experiences “small”. If the visions were real there would then be a universe ready to be discovered just by applying some research.
Unfortunately, so far the Scrooge version remains. Now, having said that, Scrooge was still dead wrong in his other views, giving your workers a fair wage and being charitable not only helped Tiny Tim but also helped all the family and the city prosper. The reasons why one should be empathic in a society are already obvious and now we even have more evidence for this. To me this is even more marvelous than assuming that we should do it because if we don’t we could go to hell.
Instead of constantly complaining about atheist posters who don’t qualify each statement to exclude people like yourself, wouldn’t it be easier to just not take offense? I mean, the beliefs outlined above are obviously atypical religious beliefs (assuming they even qualify as religious beliefs).
I guess I should have said which general interest websites are not overrun with atheists.
Sites that focus on a specific topic normally restrict people to discuss that one topic so there would not be any reason to discuss religious beliefs. (or lack of belief)
Yes, most from both sides will agree that Der Trihs can be obnoxious - but who else in this thread has been? Other than that one poster, who else posting in this thread would you consider a ‘militant atheist’?
It sounds like you may merely be an adherent to the Buddhist philosophy not the Buddhist religion.
Do you believe that there is a cycle of suffering and rebirth until we remove ourselves from ourselves and achieve Nirvana? Or do you get peace form meditation and like the idea that all living things share a common life essence and that the universe keeps a karmic ledger?
Some people think Jesus might have had contact with Buddhism (and other religions in India) during his unaccounted for teen and early adulthood.
What about pretty fly?
Look, can we at least say that some of the thread shitting is out of line? For example, a while back, someone started a thread in GQ wanting to know what holy water was. (What made it “holy”) So basically it was explained that it’s water that a priest has “blessed” (said a prayer over). Okay, question answered, no big deal, right?
No, someone had to barge in and say, “There’s no such thing as ‘holy’ water.”
Now what the hell was the point of that? Nobody asked if HW had “powers”, if it could really cure ailments, or if could keep demons away, or whatever. Just what the concept meant. (Which is, water that’s been blessed by a priest. Not magical water. So said person didn’t even know what he was talking about when he came in to threadshit!)
I’ve seen it before. You can’t have a discussion about religious concepts without some smartass bursting in and snarking about how god doesn’t exist, etc. Even when it’s not even the point of the thread – it’s just a question about a certain practice, or historical question, etc. It’s obnoxious, rude, and I think THAT’S why a lot of people are getting pissed off. At least, I know I am.
I agree its a minority, but its the kind of thing a small minority doing can result in the message ‘you’re not welcome here’ being received and understood. It doesnt take a lot and then it becomes self reinforcing over time.
All boards have this issue unless and sometimes even when a huge amount of moderation is done - they almost all tend to move towards a common cultural norm as a result, this just happens to be what the SD has ended up with.
Theres a board Im a member of that has resulted in almost the exact reverse with virtually noone but religious/conservative types there, and liberals/atheists/lefties etc dropping off over time - there are a few hardy survivors for various reasons but the skew is obvious. As the numbers get more and more skewed, it tends to accelerate because the non normative group experiences more and more of a pileon effect whenever they offer a position deviating from the cultural norms the forum has oriented around.