In this post in the “final forking” thread, Starving Artist says:
That’s quite an assertion, and rather than hijack the ‘forking’ thread even further, it seemed to rate its own thread. Personally, I see little evidence to support it. AFAICT, most of their dishonesties have concerned minor or personal matters, with possibly the biggest being the “I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky” line of Bill’s.
If Starving Artist thinks the Clintons have lied about anything of real importance, and can give for-instances, we can compare their track record with that of other high officials.
Who said anything about ‘real importance’? I’m talking frequency and blatancy. My point is that the Clintons lie like they breathe: easily and constantly. You can try to move the goalposts if you want but you fail to address or rebut my point if you do.
Thus giving the lie to the specious notion that cognizance of the Clintons’ dishonesty equals dittoheadedness.
I would suggest that if more people had listened with an open mind to the information coming out about the Clintons over the last sixteen years rather than attributing it to mindless dittoheadedness, fewer people would be shocked and disillusioned by what internet exposure is showing them to be now.
Perhaps you could share with us what you consider to be the highlights of “the information coming out about the Clintons over the last sixteen years”, then? :dubious:
Pols are Pols and they pretty well have to be dishonest to s certain degree to go into politics as a career. I don’t think the Clintons are very much different than Obama re honesty,he just talks a better game.
McCain is a bit more honest, but the GoP “machine” is run by crooks of the 1st order.
They are the standard by which all others should be measured. There is no scum below them. Dishonesty isn’t just about what you say; it’s about what you do as well. It’s dishonest to pursue power and wealth under the pretense that you’re doing what’s best for America.
And for further curiosity, how can a mere citizen/voter tell which type of politician is which? It would certainly help all the countless millions of us who have had to rely on mere instinct for all these many generations if we were able to take advantage of Lib’s uniquely deep understanding and enlightenment.
Well, shit. Of course they’re going to say that. Politicians don’t get elected if they come out publicly and tell their constituents that they fully intend to screw them over every chance they get, do they? Of course not. Therefore, every politician’s assertions of nobility are suspect from the get-go.
“I believe that I have the answers”. You hear it from every politician, but nobody thinks twice about how genuinely arrogant that is. Politicians spend millions to get a job that pays only a few hundred thousand dollars a year. Why? It’s because they have an incredible conceit about themselves. And in the cruelest irony, if that same person walked up to you in the street you’d ignore them because it’s insane to walk around like you’re King Shit.
The people that are best suited for leadership will not run for office. They don’t want to subject their families to Hell on Earth. They don’t want their mistakes of 30 years ago to become the subject of moral panic. So we’re stuck with people that will sacrifice their families, friends, and themselves for power. And these are the people we want running the show?
Your claims of sincerity fall on deaf ears, elucidator. It’s a huge fraud that we perpetuate every four years, and all that remains is to pick the least sleazy politico in the hopes that he/she might actually show some character for a change.
I’d rank the Clintons at “above average” in terms of lying. They did a lot of it but not in comparision to the people like FDR, LBJ, or Nixon - now those guys knew how to lie. The Clintons seemed to feel it was okay to lie as much as their opponents did. Roosevelt, Johnson, and Nixon would never have settled for mere parity - they wanted to outlie everyone else around and leave them in the dust.
People like me who can remember the Nixon era very well – AND are not die-hard Republicans – know Nixon to be in a class by himself when it comes to crooked politics.
Given how little Kenneth Starr and the rest of the Republican dirt-digging machine was able to get on the Clintons, despite their ruthless methods, I consider the Clintons positively scrupulous by the ( admittedly low ) standard of politicians.
I don’t think I’ve ever been able to say this before… but Airman has it. Trihs, too.
Politics, especially on the national level, requires a certain level of narcissism, ego, and twisting the truth so it suits your ends. They all do it. Some are better at camouflaging it than others, but none of these folks are running for office just to say at the first sign of trouble or a bad turn, “You know, I’m doing worse at this than I imagined. I’d better step down for the good of the country and give someone else a shot.”
I absolutely guarantee if Obama is the nominee and the victor come November, at the end of his term there will be plenty of threads like this one. Democrats are professional presidential contest losers because of their disdain for success. Clinton was a highly successful two-term president - something the Dems haven’t had since FDR - and for some inexplicable reason there’s a flock of Democrats cheering for his/her/their demise.
As mentioned upthread the Starr investigations came up with precious little so it became the saga of trying to cover up a blowjob. American politicians, and a good chunk of the populace showed their immaturity by giving a shit about it. If this dishonesty charge has to do with lying to the public about getting his freak on with Lewinsky… let me say I heartily endorse that lie, and anyone who takes umbrage and feels as if they were lied to needs to grow up. Bill Clinton is not your dad or your pastor. Why do you care if he has sex with his wife or twenty other people, as long as the job’s getting done?
And then there are the dolts who have a problem with Hillary because she chose to stay with Bill. Hey, maybe you wouldn’t do it, but why would you care if she does, for any number of reasons?
I’m talking frequency and blatancy. My point is that the Clintons lie like they breathe: easily and constantly. You can try to move the goalposts if you want but you fail to address or rebut my point if you do.