How do devout Christians justify military service?

Great Debates
1

This is really a GQ, but given the subject matter I’ll put it here to avoid it having to be moved later. As mentioned in the “Christian Military” thread, this is something I have wondered before.

These are just a few of the quotes that would seem to advocate non-violence from the words of Christ Himself. It’s not meant to be rhetorical or argumentative but curiosity when I ask "How do devout (even Fundamentalist) Christians rationalize this with a military career where you could easily be required to kill somebody who has done you no harm?

Thanks for any answers.

ETA: I am not arguing for the necessity of war- I admit it is sometimes necessary. This is strictly a question about those from a Christian perspective joining the service.

2

Some don’t (Quakers & JWs IIRC)
But generally, I imagine it’s because they can easily find other Bible verses that justify the opposite view (From JC scourging the Temple to stuff from the OT, I guess). The Bible isn’t known as a model of consistency.

3

I think this is an excellent question, exactly for the reasons pointed out in the OP. Also, Mr. Dibble makes a good point about Quakers and such.

4

I’ve had it justified by saying that Jesus’ teachings in the quoted passages were limited to individual conduct.

As a soldier in an army - especially a non-volunteer force - you are not making the decisions based on your personal morality, but from a position in a collective.

There are also Christians who would argue that turning the other cheek conflicts with a duty to protect the weak from harm.

Or that Christ’s words are for a perfect world, and we need to compromise in an imperfect world.

I disagree with this approach - I cannot imagine Christ bayonneting an soldier or slitting a sentry’s throat, or coodinating a bombing run.

Mark Twain wrote an excellent short essay on this:

[QUOTE=The War Prayer]
"O Lord our God, help us to tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells;
help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead;
help us to drown the thunder of the guns with shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain;
help us to lay waste their humble homes with hurricanes of fire;
help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief;
help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames of summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring Thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it.

For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimage, make heavy their steps, water their way with tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!

We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen."
[/quote]
http://www.lexrex.com/informed/otherdocuments/warprayer.htm

5

Only love can conquer fear, and perfect love conquers all fear. Start teaching love at all levels of society. That would work eventually, but I think only a very few posting here would agree with this.

6

[QUOTE=lekatt]
Only love can conquer fear, and perfect love conquers all fear. Start teaching love at all levels of society. That would work eventually, but I think only a very few posting here would agree with this.
[/QUOTE]

Can you explain how that would work specifically? Let’s say that Poland had learned perfect love, how would that have stopped the Nazi invasion or at least stopped the Poles from feeling any fear?

7

[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun]
Can you explain how that would work specifically? Let’s say that Poland had learned perfect love, how would that have stopped the Nazi invasion or at least stopped the Poles from feeling any fear?
[/QUOTE]

If the Poles had learned perfect love they would not fear, they would meet the Germans with open arms, gifts, and hugs. The Germans would not have to kill anyone to get what they wanted. The German leaders would have a hard time keeping an army together in that atmosphere.

Ghandi said to put all the things you value most out in the open in your house, so if a robber breaks in he will not have to tear up your home looking for them.

It is our attachments that keep us imprisoned.

8

[QUOTE=lekatt]
Ghandi said to put all the things you value most out in the open in your house, so if a robber breaks in he will not have to tear up your home looking for them.
[/QUOTE]

Ghandi? I’m aware of one Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, but is this the same person you’re referring to?

And how does this apply to the OP’s question?

9

[QUOTE=lekatt]
If the Poles had learned perfect love they would not fear, they would meet the Germans with open arms, gifts, and hugs. The Germans would not have to kill anyone to get what they wanted. The German leaders would have a hard time keeping an army together in that atmosphere.

[/QUOTE]

The Germans would still have to kill to get what they wanted because they wanted the Jews wiped off the Earth. And I am sure they could have kept their army together if the Poles had just rolled over. They could have invaded Denmark and Norway even faster.

Maybe the Jews should have put their children on the front porch?

10

[QUOTE=lekatt]
If the Poles had learned perfect love they would not fear, they would meet the Germans with open arms, gifts, and hugs. The Germans would not have to kill anyone to get what they wanted. The German leaders would have a hard time keeping an army together in that atmosphere.

Ghandi said to put all the things you value most out in the open in your house, so if a robber breaks in he will not have to tear up your home looking for them.

It is our attachments that keep us imprisoned.
[/QUOTE]

Compassion and Buddhist philosophy has not done a hell of a lot for the Tibetans so far.

11

[QUOTE=lekatt]
Only love can conquer fear, and perfect love conquers all fear. Start teaching love at all levels of society. That would work eventually, but I think only a very few posting here would agree with this.
[/QUOTE]

Teaching love would allow Christians to justify military service? Or are you just ignoring the purpose of the thread to spout bullshit?

12

That Catholic website is a really good resource for questions like this. Here is the Catholic Just War Doctrine:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Just_War_Doctrine_1.asp

13

[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan]
Ghandi? I’m aware of one Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, but is this the same person you’re referring to?

And how does this apply to the OP’s question?
[/QUOTE]

Actually, Gandhi is it. He was into X-treem pacifism. The kind where you run at the enemy shooting at you an try to give him stuff before he kills you. And then he kills you.

14

[QUOTE=Snarky_Kong]
Teaching love would allow Christians to justify military service? Or are you just ignoring the purpose of the thread to spout bullshit?
[/QUOTE]

I predicted very few would agree.

How about we need to kill them in order to save their souls?

15

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I predicted very few would agree.

How about we need to kill them in order to save their souls?
[/QUOTE]
I think you have now made your point, but as noted, above, this is not really germane to the topic of this thread which asks how Christians currently justify military service.

16

If I may try to pull the thread away from the lekatt sidetrack, the peace message of Christianity works for undermining existing power structures, but once it became part of the structure, it was forced to adapt the same military methods to stay in that position, hence no social stigma of the contradiction inherent in the warrior Christian.

17

Since when do christians follow the teachings of Jesus?

18

As Bryan points out, pacifism hasn’t been a part of mainstream Christianity since late antiquity. It’s not like these Fundamentalist Christian soldiers are defying the teachings of their community, since their particular religious community has supported war, soldiery, and conquest since the Protestant reformation.

19

[QUOTE=Don’t Call Me Shirley]
Since when do christians follow the teachings of Jesus?
[/QUOTE]

What does this mean?

20

[QUOTE=Sinaijon]
That Catholic website is a really good resource for questions like this. Here is the Catholic Just War Doctrine:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Just_War_Doctrine_1.asp
[/QUOTE]
Which brings up the question: if there isn’t a particular war going on when a Christian enlists, but his enlistment might well require his participation in an unjust war that we get involved in during that period of enlistment, how then can the Christian justify enlisting?