bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash bash yes even in the light of the face of the truth we continue to bash bash bash bash bash bash bash.
talk about hypocrisy
[sub]if you think this message pertains to you it probably does[/SUB]
Whatever… and yes, I am very comfortable with my position. And BTW: keep the attacks coming. They’re very colorful.
I think woodstockbirdybird put it best.
You’re an idiot. Your children have my sympathy.
I’ll pass the word to them. I’m sure they’ll appreciate it.
Thus demonstrating ignorance cannot be fought when one is content to be so. Much like Fundies holding on to creation beliefs in light of evolution evidence, Crafter_Man has made up his made long before joining the discussion and cannot be swayed, regardless of evidence shown.
The sad part is, he will most likely pass this ignorance on to his children.
Just out of curiosity, CM, how would you react if you learned one of your children was gay? Would your narrow mindset even allow you to consider that possibilty? What if, at the age of 22, your son tells you he’s gay. Would you trust that gay son around your other child’s children?
If you have a minor son,
You already have.
You, Crafter ol’ pal, yes even you know homosexuals. You have worked with them, you have eaten with them, you have passed the time of day with them.
You don’t give a fuck? Fine. It’s a free country, as you say.
But your kind of deliberate, unreasoning, and close-minded pigheadedness is never going to be welcome at a site such as this–one which attempts to eradicate ignorance, not perpetuate it.
You’ve admitted that there is no amount of evidence, however presented, that will cause you to seriously think about your position. You’ve admitted that you are bigoted, and you embrace that bigotry with no intent to attempt to change it.
You are worse than ignorant, my brother, you are deliberately so.
And I, for one, need have nothing further to do with you. Banging my head into a wall does not appeal–nor does throwing pearls before swine.
I always find it humorous when two parties are arguing about something, and one calls the other “ignorant” because the other doesn’t share their views and opinions. The fact is, I’m not ignorant on the subject, and neither are the millions of other folks who share my viewpoint on this. I simply have a different opinion than yourself, which you seem unable to handle. (But at least you’re civil about it.)
If I had an adult gay son? Good question. Assuming he was a well-adjusted person, I certainly would not treat him any differently than my other children. As far as leaving him alone with minor children: my son would (I hope) have a distinct advantage to me over a gay troop leader, namely that I would be know him like the back of my hand. So if I thought he would not molest children – and hopefully I would be able to make a reasonable judgment based on knowing him for 20+ years – then I wouldn’t have a problem with it at all. My previous comments were primarily directed toward strangers, or those I don’t know well. (Thought that was obvious.)
And by the way: I have a gay uncle, who I have much respect and admiration for. I also work with a gay technician, whom I also have great respect for; I trust him more than most of the other folks around here. So I’m certainly not a gay-basher by any means. But I will reiterate for the millionth time that I would not leave my son alone with an adult gay male (stranger), nor would I leave my daughter alone with an adult male stranger. It’s an unreasonable risk, IMO.
I’m glad you got that out of your system. Do you feel better now?
And I find it humorous, when faced with facts that don’t agree with a preconceived idea, a person chooses to disregard those facts lest he need to change his views. Oh wait, that’s not humorous, it’s just sad.
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So then, if it’s ok for your (hypothetically) gay son, this could be handled on a case-by-case basis as opposed to putting a blanket ban on homosexuals as troop leaders?
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So which strangers would you leave your children alone with? Any time you leave your child alone with a stranger - regardless of sexual orientation - is a bad idea and a risk.
Actually, that’s the first time you’ve put it that way. In fact, I made the point earlier that it is the “stranger” part of the situation that should cause one to worry. Sexual orientation should be your last consideration. As I and myriad others have been trying to tell you.
The way you make it sound, a complete stranger could come up and say, “Hi, can I take your 10 year old son out for ice cream?” And you’d let him, provided he wasn’t gay.
On the other hand, would you trust any of the gay friends or relatives you have with your children? If so, what does their being gay have to do with anything?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog *
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Case-by-vase, obviously. It’s what every parent does. (Are you a parent?) But if I have previous knowledge to information or conditions which I believe would subject my children to unreasonable risk (and I make the call on that one), then I will decide accordingly.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Crafter_Man *
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So you would leave your child alone with a stranger on a case-by-case basis, so long as they’re not homosexual. If the person is a stranger, how do you possibly know his/her sexual orientation?
One more follow-up question - would you leave your children alone with a homosexual on a case-by-case basis, your uncle or co-worker for example?
Wanna know what’s REALLY scary here, peeps? Crafter Man BREEDS!!!
What I wanna know is, should YOU be alone with your daughters, Crafter Man?
Easy. He’s the bigot, and you’re the idiot.
Or wait…
Is he the idiot, and you’re the bigot?
I dunno…
He’s right, folks: Use CM’s full name.
:rolleyes:
Bullshit.
You hold a negative, even derisive, opionion on a group of people for merely being who they are. There is not one general group of people be it homosexual, bisexual, Asian, Left-Handed, or whatever that I say to myself, “They’re all the same, and I don’t like them.” If I did, that would be, oh I don’t know – BIGOTRY!!
No it isn’t illegal. It can, however, be offensive. When one is using bigoted and ignorant arguments to make a case for himself, another does not have to proclaim himself “enlightened” to refute those arguments.
Gee whiz, I’d copyright that if I were you. :rolleyes:
Obviously, that would be too convenient. Why accept the truth when you know you’re right, in the face of it.
You have personal experiences that proves that all homosexuals are undesirable people? Somehow, I doubt that.
This is the most glaring example of your bigotry you’ve posted yet. Congratulations on reaching that apex.
Now someone, please make me stop banging my head against the wall.
BTW - MC, since you used the dictionary earlier, here’s Merriam-Webster’s definition of bigot - a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
Everyone has prejudices about some things, sure. But not everyone is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to them. Some people have the mental faculties to change their minds when they see not everything is they way they thought it was, so you can not be a bigot.
Crafter_Man: First of all, let me make clear at the outset I’m not bashing ( yet 
).
That said, I have to admit I don’t quite get the “gay stranger” bit. I can’t think of many situations where you would intrust your children to strangers. But let’s try a few possibilities, if you don’t mind, as I’m curious just where your boundaries are.
1.) Babysitter - An openly gay 17 or 18-year old ( who presumably you know slightly, as you know they’re gay ). Would it make a difference if they were male or female? How about if they were recommended by a friend or neighbor?
2.) Teacher - An openly gay teacher, male or female, at your local school going on a weekend fieldtrip with camping - Acceptable? How about a straight male teacher with your daughter involved? Would you refuse either instance, simply from fear of molestation?
3.) Finally a non-stranger ( I know this has been asked, if you have already answered by the time this gets posted, feel free to ignore ) - You have a reasonably good friend, who you find out is gay ( perhaps semi-closeted, so it had never come up before ). Does their orientation make any difference to you as regards as to whether you are comfortable having your children around him unsupervised ( assuming you were previously unconcerned )?
Anecdotal comment, unbacked by any statistics whatsoever - My folks have always had a number of gay friends. Several babysat for me when I was quite young. One was my favorite person in the world when I was very young and long before I even knew what “gay” meant. Another I proposed as a potential husband for my mother ( I was maybe 9 ) after my folks divorced - I obviously didn’t really understand his orientation either 
. In all the numerous times I’ve had these various people watch over me, I was never molested once . Which proves nothing I suppose, but I’ll admit it probably colors my perceptions and biases, such that the equation of homosexuals with pedophiles annoys me.