For one reason and another, I’ve been playing mostly classical solo guitar, just as a hobby, for the past several years. But recently I got out my electric, and, just from what I was able to do just fooling around, it seems like I can still play blues and rock fairly well. Moreover, I’d say my sense of rhythm and timing is much improved, so I’m much better now than I ever was with regard to requests like, “Can you come in on 3 with the Em9?”
On the other hand, I’ve gotten into conversations with street musicians at the Santa Monica Third Street Promenade, who invite me to just show up with my guitar. What? Without even one rehearsal?
Dude, hie thee to a college town instanter. Hang around the library until you get to know some of the staff, who (generally speaking) were cool 30-40 years ago. Also good – find the English/philosophy/history/art/theatre major bar and swap tales of back in the day over cheap drafts with the old townies, who tend in such places to be alumni who got sucked into the vortex and never got away, to their satisfaction and the enrichment of the community culture at large. Very rich fishing grounds, these – I promise.
Do you specifically want to play covers, or do you just not want to play crappy songs written by a no talent songwriter???
As you are living in the Los Angeles area, I can tell you for certain that you could be interacting with some exceptionally talented songwriters- it’s just that they’re not posting on Craig’s List. The good songwriters in L.A. are finding their sidemen by being out mixing with other musicians.
As an L.A. songwriter who bleeds money paying the band everytime I want to do a full band show, the idea of someone talented playing in my band “just for fun” is highly appealing. If you are truly talented, and you want to play “just for fun”, you’ll certainly be able to find someone who will be thrilled to have your talents for free.
When I do a full band show, the money I take from the door doesn’t come close to what I pay out to the band- so you don’t have to worry that your free contribution is being taken advantage of by a greedy songwriter “getting rich off your efforts”.
I suggest preceeding your “Mid Life Crisis Band” faze with a “Mid Life Crisis Going Out to Hear Bands” faze. Like I said, the talented folks are meeting each other by mixing with each other- they are not finding each other on Craig’s List. Even if you specifically want to do covers, meeting musicians face to face ain’t going to be a bad thing. In fact, you may find songwriters who have “pay the bills” cover band projects. I know an amazing songwriter, who mostly is out doing his own material but a couple times a month he plays three sets of cover tunes at O’Brien’s Pub in Santa Monica (the O’Brien’s on Main, not the one on Wilshire). Another one of my favorite songwriters brings in a few bucks on a regular basis by playing guitar in a Journey tribute band.
One of the best places to dip your toe in would be Room5 on LaBrea (just south of Beverly Bl.)- Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday nights have the best quality control as far as the talent onstage. The Monday night show at Room5 is the best place to start- Room5 Mondays feature a “Songwriters Circle”, four songwriters all onstage together taking turns doing their songs- the lineup changes but they’re always booked by the same booker who takes pride in mixing it up while at the same time being consistent with featuring artists who are true to the musical identity of the Monday night tradition. With four songwriters onstage, its rare that there isn’t at least one who is grounded in a blues rock tradition that ought to appeal to you.
There are other clubs (Temple Bar, Hotel Cafe) that are pretty consistent in the quality of talent featured, but don’t have the same community atmosphere of musicians wanting to just mix with and support each other that you will find at Room5 (Monday through Wednesday at least).
Then there are also clubs that have a great community atmosphere of musicians wanting to just mix with and support each other, but the talent being featured is lacking or at least inconsistent.
Room5 is consistent in featuring truly gifted songwriters, but also have a supportive community atmosphere.
Okay - this could take a while. I’ll go ahead and start on the basics but am happy to elaborate on any aspect as needed.
When it comes to starting a mid-life crisis band:
Dude - you are driving. If you want to start a band, start the band. In other words, you have to decide what you want to be doing - yeah, we know; you may think that you are not good enough. Here’s the secret: no one wants to do the work. So even if you suck as a player, if you are willing to bust a hump to get the right people together you get a place at the table.
if you want to jam, find people who want to jam. If you want people to play strictly accurate versions of covers, well find people who do that. In other words, play around but stick to your vision of what you want and be willing to make changes as you find other folks who share your interests.
I hear you about trying Craigslist and other sources. I don’t know what to say. I hung out at local music stores and also networked locally - it was just one of those situations where I tried tons of players until I found folks who I could work with. It is a pain, but it is no different than trying to find the right relationship - just in this case it is a workable music relationship…
Bottom line - more data points is better than less. When in doubt, suck it up and follow up on every contact you have. Figuring out what doesn’t work is a pain, but you learn more about what does work for you. And when you find good folks - oh yeah, life is good…
It wouldn’t have to be covers–just any good songs. Musically I’m like John Densmore or Ringo Starr–every day, as their respective bands were shooting to the top, they must have said to themselves, hot damn I’m lucky to be in a band with a couple of good songwriters!"
Keep in mind that I’m not really interested in competing with actual aspiring professionals.
I suppose my OP is just another variant of the old “I need more friends who are interested in the same things as I am.” Sometimes finding the right sort of friends can be as tricking as finding love.
These sound interesting. I suppose another good avenue is open-mike nights–what usually happens there? Apart from solo performers, do the participants tend to be groups that have already been jamming on their own, or do they tend to form on an adhoc basis, e.g…“You wanna go on and play Route 66?”
To be honest, most of the types of songs I’d want to play, at least the existing well known ones, are chestnuts of one kind or another, fairly easy stuff. On the other hand, my tastes are fairly eclectic and run the gamut from things like “Choo Choo Cha Boogie” to Nirvana, Phish, and The Raveonettes. There’s a lot of stuff all along the way that I really get off on, and other stuff that I either have always detested*, or have since grown tired of.
(For instance Pablo Cruise–except one time after a bad mushroom trip, ca. 1978, “Love Will Find A Way” was strangely soothing. :D. Now, thinking back on it, it wasn’t that bad a song after all.)
Can you clarify this arrangement? Do you mean you are performing your songs onstage, and you pay the other musicians in the same way an old fashioned bandleader (like Ray Charles) would pay out a salary to everyone? Or do you not perform and just get a band to perform your songs for the club/bar audience? It’s not all that germane to my OP, but it probably wouldn’t be bad for me to understand more about how these things work.
Just jumping in - look around for local pubs running open mike nights. Start with some solo numbers, and talk to the other performers.
I’ve got friends who run a pub. I was getting ready to suggest an Acoustic open mike night, when one of their staff made the same suggestion. So now we all take guitars down on a Thursday night. My BIL turns up with his Djembe and eggs/shakers/rain stick. We mix and match parts and vocals, and encourage patrons to select a song to sing. We are trying not to let it turn into a karaoke clone with people bringing backing tracks - I’d much prefer that we play for a singer. Causes a few issues, like when a young lad (used to singing with a backing track) hit the wrong note straight off and we had to improvise the chords on the fly, but it was really fun. When we have too many guitarists, I can play bass or harmonica.
Oh, and I play some solo stuff as well. But I could see a MLC band shaping up (although I am probably the only mid-lifer of the performers). Or I’ll go it alone, with some looping and stuff (ala K.T. Tunstall). We’ll see.
Just get involved. Last week, a guy came in with his wife, he hadn’t played for a few years since dropping out of a band, and he was great. I can see myself spending some time with him just learning new stuff. 'Cause he was really good.
Oh and there is nothing better than having someone saying Man, you rock after a set, and other positive comments apropos of nothing but the performance.
In a situation where a band forms because the four guys want to be a band, there is a contract (even if just a verbal agreement) that that band is defined as those four guys. If they get a record deal, it’s the four of them together that are signed. The songwriting credits will reflect all members of the band- this may mean that the four guys sit in a room together and, from scratch, create a new song together through equal contributions, but often (more often probably) the situation is one guy sits at home alone, writes the song from start to finish, then brings it to the band so the bass player can “write” the bass part, the drummer can “write” the drum part, the lead guitarist can “write” the lead guitar part.
I don’t put “write” in quotes to trivialize the contributions of the band, but if the initial guy brought the same song to a different bass player, drummer, and lead guitarist, those three guys would possibly come up with different parts than did the other three guys but certainly none could argue that it wouldn’t still be the same song.
The reason you see all four guys in the songwriting credits, when in fact the song was written by only one of them with the others adding their parts, is that with a songwriting credit there is extra money to be reaped from publishing. With all four members of the band credited as songwriters, they all get paid the same. This arrangement is based on the agreement that these four guys are the band as that band is defined.
So when four guys agree to be a band, they reap the benefits of success together and they take on the cost of the pursuit together. If they don’t draw enough of a crowd to get paid from the door, then none of them gets paid. If the take is $20 they each take $5. If the rehearsal studio costs $60 for the afternoon, they each pay $15 of it. If the self-released CD costs $8,000 to record mix master and press, then they each pay $2,000 (and at their gig when they sell 4 of their self-released CDs for $10 each, they each take $10). But then when the record contract comes and they make it big, they all reap the rewards.
It’s rare to find this arrangement in L.A. or New York- when you do find it, it’s usually that the four guys started the band together in their hometown, then moved to “the big city” together.
In “the big city” the situation is usually more like this:
[ul]
[li]Songwriter/Frontman moves to the big city to pursue a career performing his own original material.[/li][li]Guitar Player moves to the big city to pursue a career as a guitar player.[/li][li]Bass Player moves to the big city to pursue a career as a bass player.[/li][li]Drummer moves to the big city to pursue a career as a drummer.[/li][/ul]
The first paying work that the Guitar Player, Bass Player, and Drummer start to book will be from their peers- “peer” meaning that they will be hired by a Songwriter/Frontman who is at a comparable point in his career path as they are, still working a “pay the bills” square job like they are, probably close in age.
When the Songwriter/Frontman finds guys who he likes, he’ll want to keep booking the same line-up. So when you go to a club to hear the Songwriter, you’ll most often see the same guys backing him up.
But when the Songwriter is signed to a major label, it is only the songwriter who is signed. He is the only one who will receive writing credits and therefore the only one who will see money from publishing. The band that had been backing him up in the clubs may appear on the album, but they would simply be hired as session players and paid a one-time recording fee- and there’s no guarantee that they would appear on the album at all.
So, for the songwriter, “making it big” includes significant rewards that would not be shared by the band. Because of this, the band are not in it for a possible longterm pay-off, and they are not helping the songwriter advance his career simply out of the goodness of their hearts, rather they are working “for hire” and collect their pay in the short term.
For each gig, the songwriter will pay each band member for rehearsals (per rehearsal) and for the show- an unsigned songwriter will pay anywhere from $20 to $50 per rehearsal per band member and $80 to $120 per show. He may have given each of the guys a rough acoustic demo of the songs and would then allow each player a certain amount of freedom in coming up with their own parts- they don’t, however, get a writing credit for coming up with their own parts. A writing credit would be given in lieu of an upfront payment for their services. These guys are doing “for hire” work.
So, on the low end, let’s say, at $20 per rehearsal and $80 per show: Johnny Songwriter has a gig coming up- he wants a bass player, a drummer, and a lead guitarist. He books the three guys for one rehearsal plus the show- so he’s committed to paying out $300. He’s also paid $60 for rehearsal space and, let’s say, $40 for flyers and posters. Committed to paying out $400 total.
At the gig the cover charge is $6. The songwriter has to have have 20 people who, when paying the cover, say that they came to see Johnny Songwriter before he gets paid anything at all. After he draws at least 20, he gets 50% of the take while the promoter takes the other 50%.
It’s a small venue, fits about 40 people, but let’s say Johnny Songwriter packs the joint. 40 people x’s $6 = $240, promoter takes half, Johnny Songwriter gets $120 while paying out $400. Johnny Songwriter is down $280.
Still, he spends the money, and doesn’t begrudge the guys in the band for taking his money, because he knows he is investing in his career. And when he gets the big record deal, and goes off and becomes famous, the band that was backing him up in the clubs don’t feel left behind- they’d been paid well for their contributions- they know all the time effort and money he had put in his career and they are happy for him.
The hired guys don’t begrudge Johnny Songwriter his success, because they know that Johnny Songwriter’s success was a longshot, while they are booking paid work regularly. Prior to success, unsigned Johnny Songwriter would play a full band gig once every month or two- filling the between time with solo acoustic shows. The bass player, drummer, and lead guitarist are playing (if they’re good) 10 to 20 band gigs a month because in addition to playing with Johnny Songwriter they are also playing with Susie Songwriter, Bobby Songwriter, Jimmy Songwriter, Jenny Songwriter, etc. etc. etc. Once they’ve built up enough contacts, they’ll also be booking session work for recordings.
So, to finally answer your question, I’m in Johnny Songwriter’s position. When I do a full band show, I’m paying each of the guys in the band- paying them a pre-agreed upon amount regardless of what my take from the door may end up being.
So, you see, that is why any Johnny Songwriter would be thrilled to have a guy in the band who just wants to be in the band “for fun”- provided that guy has talent and is not likely to flake out when it comes to learning the songs, making the rehearsal, being ontime for the gig, no last minute cancellations and so on and so forth.
I don’t know your location but try meetup.com. If you’re in the US/Canada, you can type in your zip code and search for people who are already doing this.
My two most recent bands were formed as the result of me giving guitar lessons. In both cases, I had students who were fairly good female singers who were interested in improving their entry-level guitar skills. The first of these women asked me to perform with her as a duo, playing lead guitar (acoustic) and singing harmony. That developed into a country band with me playing lead on acoustic and electric guitar. That band lasted for a couple of years. The second woman was interested in starting a classic rock band. She knew a bass player and asked me to join an ad hoc group which was to play a few songs at a benefit concert. That resulted in a band which I stayed with for three years.
If I wanted to start a covers band right now, the first thing I would do would be to find one other musician, a bass player or guitar player, preferably one who sings. Start jamming with one other person and see how it goes. If it sounds good and it’s fun and you both want to go further, start looking for the other pieces. To find people to play with, I think you need to start going to places where covers bands play, like local bars. Get to know some of the players. Build a circle of acquaintances who play. Don’t necessarily look for midlife crises types. When I joined my last band, I was 50, and the other players were in their 20s and 30s.
