You might point that by their logic, Saddam Husein was also a nominal Republican (he called his main palace in Baghdad the Republican Palace.)
The parties have not changed much, the attitudes of voters have.
The parties are mostly the same now as 100 to 150 years ago. Republicans basically for individual liberty and responsibility, and the democrats basically for imposed solutions from the overloads above. True 150 years ago, true now.
Republicans are most definitely not for individual liberty. I mean, come on!
But that’s part of the issue. Somehow, the Republican efforts during the 1800 and the civil rights movement of the '50s and '60s have been ignored, causing Blacks to vote for Democrats in ridiculous numbers.
They’re not ignored, they’re celebrated – the Democrats used to be the enemy of black people, while the Republicans were their defenders. But since the 50s and 60s, the parties have switched roles, at least in the minds of many/most black Americans, and they feel that the modern Democratic party has picked up Lincoln’s mantle as an advocate for ending various forms of unequal and unfair treatment of black people.
Bombard them back with stats and facts about the Whig Party.
I can go to a restaurant for years and enjoy it, get good service and pay a reasonable price for food. However, if that restaurant changes management (either suddenly or through gradual attrition) and it no longer offers the same dining experience, then I have no obligation to continue to patronize them.
History does not trump current experience.
That’s not remotely true for the average voter, and even less true for the average black voter, who tends to be less educated, less informed and more apt to reflexively vote for skin color or anyone that has a “D” next to his name. They are simply ignorant of the facts presented in the OP. And any black who has the gumption and temerity to vote for an “R” candidate is quickly labeled as an Uncle Tom or some such.
I believe you are wrong about “the average black voter”, and I have seen no reason to believe they are less informed than other voters on average. On issues related to Civil Rights history, in my experience black voters are better informed, on average, then other voters.
I see no reason to believe this is true in general. In fact, when Rand Paul tried to do this at a get together with black students, he was laughed at – they were well aware of the history of black people’s rights in the US, including which party was on which side at various times.
Why should voters give more (or equal) weight to the position of the parties in the 1800s than their positions in recent decades and today? It seems very obvious to me that recent political history will be a lot more important to voters than distant-past political history.
As opposed to “less educated, less informed and more apt to reflexively vote for skin color or anyone that has a “D” next to his name” – is “Uncle Tom or some such” better or worse?
If anyone wonders why Republicans are becoming the party of the past, and why they struggle so desperately with nonwhites, just look at this post. Well, okay it’s probably also the systematic way that Republican policies work to their disadvantage, the lengths Republicans go to disenfrachise them, and the obvious comfort that racists enjoy in the Republican party.
The OP is really just an observation about willful stupidity regarding conservative politics in America.
Yep.
Might also ask what the prospects are for getting another Republican House Speaker like Tom Reed (pro-civil rights, pro-voting rights, anti-imperialist, broke up obstructionist practices in the House, etc.).
I’d vote for that kind of Republican. Too bad none ever show up on my ballot.
‘Why won’t you uneducated, uninformed, ignorant, reflexive-D/skin-color-voting minorities vote for us?’
You’re suggesting the people should vote for Republicans today because Abraham Lincoln did something 150 years ago? When they vote on the policies promoted by the candidates today, they’re ‘ignorant’ or voting for skin color.
What policies are Republicans promoting today that benefit Black Americans? Is it the cutting of Food Stamps, or cutting taxes for ‘job creators’, increasing taxes on the poor so they have ‘skin in the game’? How about cutting HHS and Education spending while boosting Agriculture and Defense?
I can’t understand why Black Americans aren’t keen to support those policies, I mean Republicans in the 1800’s were anti-Slavery, isn’t that enough?
I’m not black. I don’t speak for blacks or stand for blacks. But when stuff like this comes out of a white Republican’s mouth, what in the world makes you think minorities will vote for Republicans?
You think black people are less smart, less educated, less informed, and apt to vote for skin color. (How funny is that, since most of the options we get are old white men?) I wonder what you think about Asians. Are they naturally good at math? Or maybe Indians? Maybe we all get arranged marriages. Not to mention all of the lovely comments about rape that keep coming out of Republicans’ mouths, turning away women.
There’s a reason minorities are leaving your parties in droves. Even your biggest minority representative - Bobby Jindal - is totes crazy.
In my many years, I have learned that human beings are so constructed that political beliefs are primarily Firmly Held and are not subject to factual influence. As the saying goes, we are “born this way”. Instead, people engage in confirmation bias to construct arguments to support their Firmly Held political beliefs. Anyone who has spent time on the SDMB would find support for this notion.
So, what to do about it when encountered IRL? You can’t convince them - this it true for both sides, by the way. So, don’t beat your head against that wall trying to change their minds, don’t let their passion raise your blood pressure - just suggest that you disagree and that they shouldn’t waste their time trying to change YOUR mind, or letting their blood pressure rise.
Perhaps I’m wrong, but it is my understanding that blacks, in general, have less education than the general populace and that knowledge of history would align with that. Are you of the mind that that is that not the case? If so, can you offer any evidence?
Come on…a self-selected group of black college students who are interested enough to attend a Rand Paul discussion hardly constitute the “average black voter”.
I agree with this completely and have said nothing to contradict with it.
You can try to deflect my point, but what have I said that is incorrect?
Perhaps you’d like to try critiquing the substance of what I’ve said. Let me help you. Start with “You’re right, magellan01,…”
80% of House Republicans. But the point is valid.
It’s certainly true that the Democrats took the blame for the CRA, though.
No. Not at all. Only that they give the Republican part credit for reality.
Many of them do no squat about policies. They know that the candidate is Black and/or there is a “D” next to his name.
How about Charter Schools. Since poor education is, I’d say, the biggest factor hurting Black America, I’d say that one should expect a greater percent of Black blotters to vote on that issue.
How about restricting immigration? Or hell, ILLEGAL immigration. The last thing poor blacks with limited skill sets need (and there are disproportionately way to many of them) is more people coming in to compete for the same jobs, and driving down wages in the process. But I guess hispanics or the next pet cause the Dems to give lip service to, right? The sad plight of blacks is so 1970s!