If QB passes to WR for 10 yards, it goes in the books as a 10 yard pass for QB and a 10 yard catch for WR.
If QB hands off to RB, and RB gains 6, it goes in the books as a 6 yard rush for RB.
What happens if QB passes to WR for +19, then WR laterals to WR2 for 8 more yards, then WR2 laterals to TE for 7 more, then TE laterals to QB for -4, then QB laterals to WR for +15 more and a touchdown?
Also, what if QB hands off to RB, and RB rushes for +1 past the line of scrimmage, then RB flea flicks to QB who passes for 18 to WR? Legal forward pass? Does RB get a +1 stat for the rush?
Exactly. If a team is going to run a flea-flicker the halfback has to be sure not to cross the line of scrimmage. Of course, I don’t think the back normally has the ball for more than about a second on a flea-flicker anyway.
Is that a loss-of-down penalty? If not, then the defense might decline, for instance on a 4th and 20 in order to get possession rather than taking the chance of unsuccessfully defending a 4th and 30.
I’ll second that. If a lateral occurs on a run or a kick return, the yards accrued will be rushing yards or kick return yards, respectively.
This wasn’t always the case. Lateral passes were kept as a separate statitsical category by the NFL from 1935-1949 for teams and 1942-49 for players. After that, yards gained on laterals were included with the originating play.
Not sure about that–according to the Digest of Rules, only an illegal pass thrown from beyond the line of scrimmage is five yards and a loss of down. Other illegal-pass penalties are shown as five yards only. Since the NFL doesn’t publish its rule book, that’s about all I can say.
Ha! Not true, according to the broadcast of the Miami-New England game on Sunday. New England threw what was supposed to be a lateral, but was in fact a forward pass caught behind the line of scrimmage. The receiver then threw another pass over the line of scrimmage which was caught for a TD. Pass was illegal, and the play didn’t count and (I think) a five yard penalty was imposed, but there was no loss of down (although the referee initially indicated loss of down, the down marker was reset before the next play, and the announcers later explained that the initial indication was incorrect and there was no loss of down).
One would assume in this case that the QB is still behind the line of scrimmage, so the pass would be legal. (I can’t imagine anyone devising the play otherwise.)
Remember, a lateral is a pass that doesn’t go forward, no matter how it’s thrown. I don’t know what you mean by “flea flicks,” but if the RB throws overhand to the QB – in the standard overhand “forward pass” motion – and the QB is still behind the line of line of scrimmage and behind the RB, it’s a lateral and the QB can throw the ball downfield.
If the QB is even with the RB or less than one yard behind him (i.e., at the line of scrimmage or further), the lateral counts, but he cannot throw downfield. I’m not sure if he can go back behind the line of scrimmage to throw.
If the QB is ahead of the RB, it’s a forward pass to the QB (even if it’s an underhand shovel pass), and any additional pass forward is illegal.
Apparently, if I understand what happened in the Pats-Dolphins game yesterday, there is no loss of down if the illegal forward pass happens behind the line of scrimmage.
In yesterday’s game, Kevin Faulk (RB) got the ball, threw what was supposed to be a lateral to Tom Brady (QB), who threw for a touchdown. Both Faulk and Brady were behind the line of scrimmage. Unfortunately, Brady was a few yards ahead of Faulk, so Faulk’s intended lateral was ruled a forward pass, and the play was ruled illegal.
IIRC, the officials penalized the Pats for 5 yards and a loss of down. However, the official holding the down marker on the field did not change the down indicator following the penalty announcement. For the next few plays, the down indicated on the field differed from the down indicated in the booth, before the Pats lost the ball on the 3rd down (field)/4th down (booth) of the series.
Finally, the announcers decided that the down indicated on the field was correct, and that the officials had apparently rescinded the announced loss of down because both the two illegal forward passes had taken place behind the line of scrimmage.
A fleaflicker is a hand-off to the RB, who then a laterals back to the QB, who then (usually) passes it. If the RB goes beyond the line of scrimmage before tossing it back to the QB, no forward pass can legally be thrown.
As garygnu said, this is incorrect. Again, once the ball passes the line of scrimmage, even if it is brought back behind it, a forward pass is no longer a legal option.
From the official NFL Gamebook description of the play (and you were indeed correct and I think that is just an NFL rule):
1-10-MIA 33 (9:55) (Shotgun) 33-K.Faulk pass to 12-T.Brady to MIA 38 for -5 yards. 12-T.Brady pass deep left to 82-D.Graham for 38 yards, TOUCHDOWN NULLIFIED by Penalty.
PENALTY on NE-12-T.Brady, Illegal Forward Pass, 5 yards, enforced at MIA 33 - No Play. Second pass was from behind the line of scrimmage so there was no loss of down on the play