Yup, not exactly a unique story.
And hey, I’ve made some horrible life decisions and wound up fine.
It’s hardly ever just luck, but it’s also hardly ever because you’re just that awesome or sucky.
AbloyProtec, I was crafting a well thought out reply to you, but screw it.
You got yours, that’s all that counts.
Nice.:rolleyes:
Well put.
And on the contrary, my former boss had ALS. Died within a year of being diagnosed.
Had enough saved up to cover medical costs after insurance, sold his half of the company, and left his widow with a sizable chunk of change. Nothing can replace his life but it was truly out of his hands. He lived a life within his means enough to set aside cash for retirement or unforeseen medical expenses, which ultimately occurred. He wasn’t born into wealth but he did work, hard might I add.
Luck didn’t work in his favor towards the later portion of his life, but he was prepared for that and his family.
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There is a difference between opinion and berating. You berated someone who held an opinion or stance different from your own and then used your “experience” as validation to effectively tell him/her to shut up.
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No reason to put “experience” in quotes – unless you’re trying to belittle me and minimize how much weight my experience carries. How dare I contradict someone in a public forum using my life experience!
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That’s anyone else’s problem because? You made the choice, live with the consequences. I’m sure you had no problems when you were making it. Never thought to branch out or consider that the bottom may fall out one day?
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Oh, please – throughout out my entire professional life in corporate America I was attending continuing education multiple times per year, on my own dime when the company wouldn’t pay for it. But now, instead of employing an American in an office to do the work either a computer program is doing it or they can e-mail a request to Bangalore, have someone do it for 1/10 of US minimum wage, and then e-mail it back. No one in the US can compete with that.
I didn’t make the choice, industry did, and yet I still live with the consequences of decisions OTHER PEOPLE have made. Which is how the real world often is. If someone moves a factory from Tennessee to Mexico it’s not the factory workers’ “choice” that they’re suddenly unemployed.
And no, I didn’t “have problems” while I was making it. Sure, I got a notion a year or two in advance it was time to move on, but the hammer came down sooner than I expected because, you know, I can’t see the future.
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No one “held me down”, it’s just the way things are right now. BLAMING people - the poor, “the Man”, the CEO, the companies, whoever - is not productive. It’s like saying who is at fault for a flood or hurricane. It just happened and a lot of people got caught in the mess.
I don’t know what to tell you. I didn’t lose my job, in fact I’ve doubled my income. I entered the job market in 2007, when this stuff really kicked in. Careful planning goes a long, long way.
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Oh, goody for you. You entered the job market in 2007? That would make you what? 22? 24? Oh, to be young and naïve again. You aren’t old enough to know what “careful planning” really means.
Sure, we planned carefully. When I was laid off I had zero debt, even my vehicles were paid off. I had about six months warning so we started cutting back then and socking money in the bank. When we bought vehicles (2002, most recently, 5 years before the shit hit the fan) we deliberately purchased fuel-efficient ones which is really paying off now. I have a genuine pension and retirement waiting for me at 65 that isn’t dependent on social security (I just can’t collect until then, which leaves the problem of how to survive the intervening years). We learned to live within our means and budget years ago – likely before you were even born. We both got college educations, and maintained and improved our skills over the years.
But you know, the industries that were thriving 30 years ago aren’t the same ones thriving today. No one could have predicted three decades ago how today’s world would look. Even 10 years ago, who would have thought an IT related degree is near-worthless in today’s market?
You haven’t lived long enough to see the world change around you.
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Apparently you did do something wrong. You didn’t anticipate on someone not wanting your antiquated and useless skills. Times change, did you not go with them?
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And… there you go, proving my point! You can’t even consider that maybe I did NOT do something wrong. It’s just not in your universe. I feel sorry for you – when the universe suddenly does slap you upside the head one day you won’t have a clue how to cope.
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Oh, but you’re wrong.
It’s been used extensively for over a thousand years. My industry continues to post and post and post profits. It’s needed; it’s mandatory given building codes as well (hint, hint).
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Oh, don’t be coy.
What? Civil engineer? Architect? There are firms that are sending the work over to architects in India to do that work cheaper than anyone in the US can. Building inspector? Ha! Half of them around here are out of work due to municipalities consolidating the work.
So, what’s this mysterious profession that never has to worry?
30 years ago my choices WERE the recession-proof choices – but the world changed. That’s why I say, don’t get cocky.
Not to mention it only takes one disabling accident to knock you out of the running. Could you do your job from a wheelchair? If you were blind? Deaf? Half paralyzed from a stroke?
I paid my taxes for 30 years and didn’t have any problem with the portion going to the poor. I’m not asking you to do anything I haven’t done for 30 years.
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I hold a patent as well. I sold it to a company for $1. I didn’t want the money; just the good feeling that I contributed something to history, but that’s justt me.
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Then you’re an idiot, if you could have gotten more for it than $1.
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That sounds like your problem, not mine.
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Actually, it’s HIS problem, not mine, but who’s keeping track. After all, you’re “proud” of him, but it must be MY problem and of course I MUST have done something wrong – all my fault, right? Because bad things can’t possibly happen to good people.
My spouse has maxed out not one but TWO health insurance policies – which made getting our current one quite a trick, let me tell you. You got in a car accident, but clearly it didn’t leave you permanently damaged. When I met him he was earning $100,000 a year and half of it was going to pay medical bills over and above insurance costs. It kept him going for another couple decades, but then the kidney infection (all too common in people with spinal damage) and a small stroke sort of knocked him down for good. Oh, but maybe he should have known in advance all that would happen, right?
Please – I seriously doubt whatever issues that came from that accident are anywhere near what my spouse has had to deal with.
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How am I hindering you?
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By insisting I MUST have done something wrong, that it couldn’t be forces out of my control that left me here despite my planning and effort and contingency plans. By not supporting effective social programs that actually help people move from poverty into prosperity. By telling ill and disabled people they’re not your problem. By blaming the poor for being poor in all cases.
You’re also hurting yourself by smugly assuming you’re immune to misfortune.
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Oh save me. I suffered a catastrophic injury. Insurance served me well and I was back at it within the year.
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Are you permanently disabled? Do you still have both your eyes, your ears, all your limbs? Are you in a wheelchair? Can you walk more than 500 yards at a time?
Sure, you were injured – and you recovered. Disabled means no, you didn’t recover, not entirely. My spouse have a frozen ankle, a deformed foot, reduced use of both knees, and no feeling in his legs. He’s lost almost all the use of his left hand. His vision has deteriorated. He’s had to have over a dozen back surgeries, and he is in constant pain every day of his life. He’s had permanent damage to his kidneys, pancreas, heart, and lungs. There is nothing more medical science can do to improve his situation.
Is that your situation? Or have you actually recovered all your prior abilities and functions?
I very much doubt your injuries were “catastrophic” except in your own mind. I don’t doubt they were serious and painful, I just don’t think you understand the difference between those two states.
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Then I guess they should have done their research a bit more carefully, huh?
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Oh, that’s precious – tell me, do you choose your health insurance, or does your employer? Because for most Americans they don’t really have a choice, they take what their employer gives them – if their employer gives them any health insurance at all. If they can’t get it through work then they’re thrown into the individual policy market. Which is a joke, between the pre-existing condition clauses, the exclusions, rescission, and insanely high premiums. No, they don’t deny you insurance – just set the premiums impossibly high.
That’s another myth, that the average American has a choice regarding their health insurance. If it comes from their employer, no, they aren’t doing the choosing.
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Ignorance to coverage is no excuse for a revamp to the system. I have no sympathy towards anyone that didn’t have the foresight to research or question coverage that’s pertains to their health.
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Clearly, you don’t have any pre-existing conditions. Well, I hope you stay that healthy. Again, do you actually buy your own insurance, or is it employer-supplied?
Good for him - he lived long enough to have a company to sell, and was ill short enough that he didn’t burn through his assets. There is skill there - in setting up the company to start with - but a LOT of luck in the timing. Had he been diagnosed when the company was just starting - had his illness been lengthy, that unhappy ending would have involved more suffering.
We really WANT to believe that we can control these things. If I do X, and then do Y, I can keep the monsters at bay. And we can reduce risk. But you can’t get rid of it entirely.
Now, there are some good points about some segments of the poor not doing enough to manage risk. There are plenty of people out there making bad decisions - like spending what little money they have on cigarettes or lottery tickets or both. But two things - one, we need a finer brush because often people DO end up poor because they ran into a rash of bad luck and not due to bad decisions. And two - is it ethical (and perhaps as importantly, safe for those that have) to let people - even those who are poor due to their own bad decisions - suffer and not meet basic needs?
Uh-huh - and how many years did he have to build up that nest-egg? Could someone half his age have done it, or does it just suck to be young and ill. If YOU were diagnosed with something like that, could YOU do the same? If not, why not? Poor planning? Or just not enough time to get the reserves built?
Also - he died within a year. If he had had some chronic and expensive problem that nest-egg would have been considerably whittled down by the time of his death. It’s not just quick deaths that cost money. Indeed, living years with a chronic problem is MUCH more expensive in the long term.
If I did get ALS, I’d hope it’d be the end of me within a year. ALS is a very debilitating disease and I’d rather not put my family through it.
Currently, I could do the same (assuming a year or two). As previously mentioned, I’d sell my car, cash out my 401k, and work for as long as I could (basically try to put whatever I could into my liquid cash). I have two life insurance policies that go to my fiance so, if anything is left over, she’ll more than likely to be able to cover it and then have a bit extra for her troubles.
It just strikes me as weird that someone would hope to die sooner rather than later.
Well, with ALS you probably would, although 1 in 6 people last longer than 5 years with it. Or you could wind up like Stephen Hawking, who has had ALS for 40+ years. Of course, he doesn’t have to worry about medical costs - he lives in a society where care for invalids is provided without rendering them destitute.
Let’s face it, if Hawking had lived in the US his medical insurance would have run out decades ago and he’d be long dead.
I knew a woman with ALS. Her husband died and kids were gone. She was very down at the thought of slowly losing her faculties. She made a date with Jack Kevorkian. That is hard to do nowadays.
Yeah, especially as Jack is dead now himself.
Hemlock Society and Dignitas seem to be the people to call these days. Oh, wait, doesn’t Washington or Oregon have assisted-suicide now?
I can understand that - I’m not big on suffering and not of the belief that the quantity of life is sacred. However, I can’t make that decision for my brother in law. Not as an individual and not as a society.
Both. Washington’s just went effect a year or so ago. Oregon has had theirs for quite some time.
I think this topic is really offensive, the way it’s put. I think it’s a very condescending look at the poor in society.
Also, just because you work in retail doesn’t make you “poor”. It’s a very close-minded view to have. To say “oh well when you compare it to my amount of money…”, I hope you realise how much of an ass you sound like.
Thank you ModernPrimate.
Anyone making assumptions about my intelligence and willingness to work based on nothing more than the fact that I am using a food card at the grocery store is both condescending and sanctimonious.
And Dangerosa has a very good point about the way humans think.
To which I would add that we also want to think that we are special/smart/good/healthy enough that the monsters will look at us, say “she’s doing the right thing” and pass us by for the asshole down the road that is doing a whole lot of the wrong things. It just doesn’t always work like that.
Anyone saying “It can’t happen to me because XXXXX” is fooling themselves. Prepare all you like. Save all you can. Play by the rules. You can do all that and still have the monsters come along and knock you on your ass.
I wondered why software costs were so low!
All kidding aside, my degree is in software engineering. I saw the writing on the wall during my first year but finished out anyways. 30 years ago? What were you programming in? COBOL? C?
What languages do you know? I’m very good with PHP and SQL variants (e-commerce was my goal) and Monster has tons of PHP developer positions opened throughout the US. I’m sure it’s the same with Ruby On Rails or ASP. Never bothered to learn any of those? They’re quite simple and the pay is extraordinary. Contract and free lance work pays good too.
Oh well.
Learn a new language. They aren’t hard, as I’m sure you know.
Tisk, tisk.
Ignored my frugal ways in the rest of this thread? I rat hole money, perhaps too much. I don’t go out to bars, I don’t smoke, I don’t buy expensive electronics (I’m on an 8 year old computer I built in high school), etc. I haven’t bought a pair of shoes in 2 years, for Christ’s sake. I’m the epitome of careful planning. I don’t know anyone my age that saves 70% of their income.
Apparently you didn’t save enough money then, because if the shit hit the fan in 2007 and it’s 2011 and you’re struggling?
If I’m young and naive, then you’re ignorant to what the youth of today is capable of, primarily foresight, research, and decision making.
IT degrees aren’t worthless, your skills are. Monster’s search results max out at 1,000 so I can’t tell you how many IT related jobs there are on there, but it maxed out.
No, you did do something wrong. Your skills are useless in today’s job market and, according to you, you had prior warning.
None of the above.
It’s a specialized skilled trade. It’s not unique to my profession either. Welders, plumbers, electricians, etc. can all make more money than myself in institutional settings. Many do.
But you know, 30 years from now, that’s going to be feasibly outsourced, right? Get real.
I don’t see myself doing this for another 5 years, honestly. I’ve got my eye on contract work or product development, but more on that in bit!
Oh of course. Absolutely. I sit down most of the time to work anyways.
You must really think I’m stupid that I framed the check and paper work rather than cashing it too!
Again, your skills are useless. Hate to break it to you.
Nah, the weekly migraines and Imitrex prescription aren’t permanent. Let me tell you, I LOVE sitting in bed on the verge of blacking out for hours while the medicine does it’s job. It’s almost psychedelic after a while.
Wah wah. You want UHC because you can’t afford the cards life dealt you.
Cool, then don’t expect me to be fine with sending my tax dollars to fund any sort of UHC. You’re proud of it, to the point of bragging, so handle it on your own, please.
Right, again, not my problem. I don’t care about your plight, quit trying to get anymore of my money to handle it.
I’ve had my misfortune. I paid for it. I’m still paying for it. World keeps spinning.
Shit happens, he’s not the only one.
Nah, I hit the genetic lottery. No pre-existing conditions. My immediate family have all lived disease and cancer free lives; long age spans. I just had my annual physical and it’s look all good.
Keep assuming, sweetheart.
Employer pays 4/5ths. Prior to working here, I purchased my own insurance because it was cheaper for me to do it on my own than through my previous employer.
Aside from the accident, I’ve been to the ER once in my life for falling asleep in the sun when I was 12. I never get sick; I’ve never had the flu or pneumonia or anything. No broken bones. Just really bad sunburn and a car accident that left continuous migraines.
Go visit someone with ALS and tell me if you still feel the same way. I’d put a bullet in my head if I knew the insurance policies would allow for it.
…if everyone in the world planned as well as you did, were frugal with their money and didn’t buy shoes for two years, would everyone have a job right now?
How much of that wonderful income do you give to charities to help the less fortunate AbloyProtec?
Mostly because other people need to put themselves on a superior social status in any way they can, usually with the help of religious beliefs, and they have always succeeded in the current recorded history of the human species.