How do people get so fat?

[begbert2]

@MsWhatsit

Look, there are two things going on here. One is the idea that weight loss is, at root, just a matter of consuming less than you burn. This is true. The other is the idea that because the basic idea is pretty simple, that means that weight loss must necessarily be simple. This is not true. Weight loss is hard. There are a lot of things in the world that are theoretically pretty simple, but very difficult in practice, and for most people, losing weight and keeping it off is one of those things.

I’m not sure it is that simple. As was just noted, the body jumps through hoops to deal with your various protiens, fats, and carbohydrates, and it’s pretty clear that there’s nothing like a straight linear relationship between food calories (of any kind) and weight gain/loss. For proof of this, consider the fact that it’s not only possible, but easy to eat well over double your caloric needs. 3500 calories? Pfft. Child’s play - in a single day. Every day. Easily. But despite that, pretty much nobody gains a pound a day, every day, in/out. (If they did they would weight a ton in six years - literally, a ton.) Which means that the body is obviously not converting all of the excess calories to fat. What it’s doing with it all I couldn’t tell you (though when I was starting out as a diabetic I was literally pissing it away ;)), but it’s certainly not all going to the hips, regardless.

So yeah. It’s not actually that simple. Though of course there is a strong correlation between diet and weight loss, at least once you drop down to a reasonablish caloric intake or lower. Still, that’s not the same as a 1:1 correlation.

@MsWhatsit

What I take exception to is people who say that weight loss is literally impossible, or that they know someone who has been eating 1200 calories and exercising like a madman for two years and hasn’t lost a pound. I find these stories dubious.

Well, you’re clearly not talking about me, because I say that dieting is quite possible - and effective.

[MsWhatsit]

Nope, not you. But that kind of story crops up a lot in these discussions.

Re diabetes, yes, actually when the disease is really uncontrolled, you can lose quite a bit of weight! However, this is not a recommended weight loss strategy. (I have heard anecdotally that this can be a problem with some young girls who are type 1 diabetics – they will stop taking their insulin shots for a few days in order to lose a few quick pounds. This is a very bad idea for obvious reasons.)

[begbert2]

@MsWhatsit

(I have heard anecdotally that this can be a problem with some young girls who are type 1 diabetics – they will stop taking their insulin shots for a few days in order to lose a few quick pounds. This is a very bad idea for obvious reasons.)

I have no meaningful or insightful response to this.

Just :eek::smack:.

[RickJay]

@rhubarbarin

Listen, people, if we had the mechanics of the human body figured out- the amount of fat people in America would not be climbing. To to say nothing of the epidemic of fat children, which do more than anything I think to prove that it’s more complicated than most think. The amount of overweight kids has tripled in the past 30 years. How exactly does someone who is still growing ‘eat too many calories’?

By eating too many calories and not exercising enough.

Widespread weight problems have nothing to do with the human body being some sort of mystery and everything to do with people shovelling huge amounts of food into their pieholes and not getting off the couch.

Certainly there’s some details containing devils, but you can’t seriously tell me fat people are fat because of unexplained mysteries of human anatomy. I was REALLY fat, am still overweight, and I know damned well why: I ate too much and didn’t exercise enough.

[begbert2]

@RickJay

By eating too many calories and not exercising enough.

Widespread weight problems have nothing to do with the human body being some sort of mystery and everything to do with people shovelling huge amounts of food into their pieholes and not getting off the couch.

Certainly there’s some details containing devils, but you can’t seriously tell me fat people are fat because of unexplained mysteries of human anatomy. I was REALLY fat, am still overweight, and I know damned well why: I ate too much and didn’t exercise enough.

Actually it was only because you ate too much.

[rhubarbarin]

Disprove:
The explanation for fat people in general and in particular, is the kind of food they are eating, not so much the amount, and even less so their level of fitness.

The ‘obesity epidemic’ in America aligns perfectly with a chart showing the increased consumption of sugars per head: up to an astounding 140 pounds per year now.

More and more doctors are supporting this theory.

[Crafter_Man]

@Hazle_Weatherfield

Just chiming in to say that I don’t think it’s a mystery. I’m 5’2" and very food/body conscious, but I can put on 10 pounds at the drop of a hat! It’s a constant struggle. People looking at me cannot imagine the struggle. Oh, it must be easy for her. So, if it’s hard for me to maintain the weight I want, it’s not hard at all to see how easy it would be just to quit being so vigilant and say screw it! I was kind of amazed to read the OP; it seems fairly obvious to me. It’s HARD and it takes WORK NOT to be fat, as far as I’m concerned.

I’m in the same boat. I have to watch everything I eat, else I’ll balloon up.

I’ve also learned that you can’t educate someone on how to lose weight. Quite a few people have asked me how I keep my weight off, and I tell them. In some cases I’ve spend hours explaining to coworkers what to eat, what to avoid, how not to overeat, etc. They thank me for the advice, and then go back to pigging out. :rolleyes: (FYI, I only give advice when asked. I never give unsolicited advice.)

I don’t believe it’s an issue of ignorance. I’m convinced 99% of fat people know why they’re fat, whether they admit it or not. They simply don’t care, or they do not have the willpower to control what they eat.

[Discipline]

Guess how many calories are in 140 pounds of sugar.

Next, guess how many calories you wouldn’t need to burn off if you didn’t eat 140 pounds of sugar.

This isn’t hard rhubarbarin.

[Zsofia]

Human beings are just terribly long-term planners. We’d rather hear about how we can die from a serial killer hiding in the back seat of our cars than about heart disease, which is going to kill about a million more people that Mr. Serial Killer. berbert2 isn’t anything exceptional or new, just an example of the problem - if it kills you long and slow, we don’t want to hear about it because in the here and now we’d rather not go run, or do yoga, or climb the stairs instead of the elevator. It’s just the way we are. It isn’t the way we have to be, any more than the lifestyle of the bonobo (enticing as it may be) is, but it’s what’s easiest for us.

[keturah]

@rhubarbarin

Thank god someone else in this thread understands that it’s not ‘just that easy’ and all down to the ‘law of thermodynamics’.

Listen, people, if we had the mechanics of the human body figured out- the amount of fat people in America would not be climbing. To to say nothing of the epidemic of fat children, which do more than anything I think to prove that it’s more complicated than most think. The amount of overweight kids has tripled in the past 30 years. How exactly does someone who is still growing ‘eat too many calories’?

Why do you snicker quote the “law of thermodynamics”? If your body is creating mass from nothing, please submit yourself to the NIS.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

@begbert2

Of course, the meditation alone isn’t a weight loss strategy. (Excepting to the degree it occupies time that might otherwise be spent snacking, which I freely concede could have an effect if you’re not already controlling your snacking by some other method.) And my focus is on the weight loss. So, while it’s interesting to have ascertained the separate mechanism for achieving this altered mental state, it doesn’t have the appeal to me that it might otherwise have.

This is all well and good, but I still think I’m right. The clues seem to be in everything you say about your diet. Your intention is to eat less, and better, but- you don’t! How is you intention being knocked off its seat? Why, it is the monkeys making you do it. (Maybe a psychologist can frame this in better terms) Meditation (I now believe) even without the yoga will give you the ability to recognize and suppress the monkeys, and you’ll be better able to stick with your sensible intentions. That is, if you didn’t hate the idea.

And I still think yoga will help with your diet, dude. Let’s say your practice takes you to the exquisite level of bodily control such that, next time you are in the store in front of the cookies, you command your hand not to pick them up; you command your feet to take you to the shelf with the better choices; and your quiet mind coolly ignores its monkeys’ screeching reaction to this course. Ta-da! But don’t expect these moves to do a goddamn thing to stretch your aorta.

Honestly don’t mean to be snarky, but why is it not that simple?

The Dope is awesome for this. Seriously, it’s like the Unexpected Learning Experience message board. Makes it totally worth the time to come here.

Yeah, it really does fight ignorance, no? Good thing for me, too.

More comments on the yoga thing. This discussion has made me realize that I had a proto-technique that predated the yoga, the running, even my plans to get fit in the first place. Years ago I had a whole slew of problems- no money, lousy jobs, bad relationships, declining fitness, all taking place in America’s Crappiest Town. It looked like I was headed for a miserable life. Fortunately I used what seems to be the universal technique for solving personal problems, and by this point I’ve fixed every single thing (ok, I don’t have zero problems, but I won’t labor that point seeing how hard it is to convince you of anything). Strap yourself in and grab a pen or a camera, as this will surely go down in the Permanent Annals of Philosophy. What is it? I employed the esoteric technique of lighting a fire under my own ass.

No, I don’t think I went nuts. I simply was not going to take ‘no’ for an answer from this stupid world. I wouldn’t countenance any excuses and did not care about the effort level or suffering required if I was on the path to results. Not on any front.
So really, in terms of the fitness thing, it didn’t have to be yoga or running (though neither rose to torture levels, except the actual marathon). In an alternate universe I met different people and enjoy swimming and raquetball.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

And, on the topic of the effectiveness of exercise-
This year I happened to meet Constantina Dita, the gold medalist in the marathon at the Beijing Olympics. I recognized her when she stepped into an elevator with me (you seriously need to quit taking the stairs). I shook her hand. It was like shaking hands with a bird. I became a believer in the theory that some people have big bones, as hers are surprisingly slight (maybe she ran them down). I talked to her for a minute or two, and learned that she runs 140 miles per week :eek: And she seemed beamingly happy- no surprise, since running makes you high after all.

I’m not saying anyone else can run that much- she is the champ after all. But, you can see from the picture, and you should believe my impression, that she is quite thin. If it isn’t the exercise, how do you explain her physique?

Anyway, my theory for getting weight-loss results from exercise: pick something. Don’t worry about what level you’re at, just find some way to quantify it, in terms of time, distance, or time*effort, something like that. Keep track and slowly crank it up. If you’re exhausted in 5 minutes and have to rest for 3 days, fine, go for six minutes next time, rinse and repeat until you see results- without imposing your ideas of what that level is. Forget about expectations of suffering (or any expectations), only worry about injuries. You’ll come to like it. You won’t have to take it to Olympic levels, honest. That’s it!

[elfkin477]

@filmore

Something’s not adding up here. You were doing 2 hours of exercise a day, probably 600 calories, without changing your eating and didn’t lose weight. The energy to do the exercise has to come from somewhere. What sort of food logs were you keeping? Did you monitor your eating before you started exercising?

If they didn’t eat more to compensate, the missing piece is probably a gain in muscle mass. Three years ago I spent two months really focused on exercising. I only lost ten pounds, but almost five inches off my waistline. The gain in muscle over that time was fairly apparent judging from questions I got asked.

[Try2B_Comprehensive]

@Crafter_Man

(FYI, I only give advice when asked. I never give unsolicited advice.)

Uh oh. Guilty. Scale of 1-10, how bad am I being, and what do I do now?

[needscoffee]

@elfkin477

If they didn’t eat more to compensate, the missing piece is probably a gain in muscle mass. Three years ago I spent two months really focused on exercising. I only lost ten pounds, but almost five inches off my waistline. The gain in muscle over that time was fairly apparent judging from questions I got asked.

It’s possible I gained muscle and lost fat, even though the too-tight waist of my pants didn’t fit any looser. But if I did, it wasn’t apparent to me or my clothes. As I had replied (I don’t know how you missed it in the 594 posts above) it simply wasn’t a strenuous enough workout for me to lose weight by, with my apparent tortoise-like metabolism (it was a 3 mile brisk walk + 3 mile lap swim or another 3 mile walk, 3 times a week, for almost 8 months). I sure hope I got some muscles out of it, especially after hauling around a foot cast afterwards for 6 weeks to recover from the 2 stress fractures. I have no doubt that if I worked hard enough at strenuous-enough exercise, I’d lose weight, but not all exercise translates to fat loss. Not the “3500 calories expended = 1 lb of weight/fat loss” misconception.

[MsWhatsit]

Well, I want to clarify that it’s 3500 calories = 1 pound of fat burned, but that 3500 calories has to be an actual deficit. As I pointed out earlier, if you are still consuming many more calories than your body needs, you can actually expend 3500 calories in exercise but still not create a 3500 deficit, because you are making up the difference with caloric intake.

That blows that you had to have a CAST for stress fractures! My brother just got a stress fracture in his shin from playing soccer and the doctor just told him to stay off it for several weeks.

[rhubarbarin]

@Discipline

Guess how many calories are in 140 pounds of sugar.

Next, guess how many calories you wouldn’t need to burn off if you didn’t eat 140 pounds of sugar.

This isn’t hard rhubarbarin.

Here’s a report issued by the USDA that is in the early stages of understanding the problem:

http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/FoodReview/DEC2002/frvol25i3a.pdf

For the lazy, some quotes that prove my points:

“average daily calorie consumption in 2000 was 12 percent, or roughly 300 calories, above the 1985 level”

“Average annual consumption of caloric sweeteners grew by 22 percent between 1980-84 and 2000.”

“between 1985 and 1999, per capita consumption of total dietary fat remained steady, even declining slightly in some intervening years. Moreover, fat’s share of total calories declined between 1985 and 1999, as total calorie consumption increased.”

Guess what replaced those fat calories? Sugars and flour.

“The data suggest that the average American not only eats more grain servings than recommended—most of it refined grain—in relation to calorie expenditure level but also may need to change the types of foods consumed from the grain group to meet dietary recommendations for whole grains, fiber, fat, cholesterol, and added sugars. A high-carbohydrate diet can raise the risk of heart disease for the estimated 25 percent of Americans who have Metabolic Syndrome, also called Syndrome X, or insulin resistance. For these people, too much carbohydrate will raise levels of triglycerides and lower levels of HDL (good) cholesterol. A high-carbohydrate diet can also pose a health threat for overweight, underexercised people”

[rhubarbarin]

@Try2B_Comprehensive

And, on the topic of the effectiveness of exercise-
This year I happened to meet Constantina Dita, the gold medalist in the marathon at the Beijing Olympics. I recognized her when she stepped into an elevator with me (you seriously need to quit taking the stairs). I shook her hand. It was like shaking hands with a bird. I became a believer in the theory that some people have big bones, as hers are surprisingly slight (maybe she ran them down). I talked to her for a minute or two, and learned that she runs 140 miles per week :eek: And she seemed beamingly happy- no surprise, since running makes you high after all.

I’m not saying anyone else can run that much- she is the champ after all. But, you can see from the picture, and you should believe my impression, that she is quite thin. If it isn’t the exercise, how do you explain her physique?

It’s an advantage to be naturally small and thin when you’re Olympic marathoner (hence why so many North Africans with naturally tiny frames succeed in this field). Less mass to carry is part of what makes you able to go the distance in a shorter time. These people are not starting out normal-size and losing an extreme amount of weight once they start running miles and miles.They are genetically tiny. They might be a bit bigger if they didn’t run like maniacs, sure.

It’s just like you have to naturally be quite muscular and larger-framed to be an Olympic sprinter. It’s also an advantage to be tall (see Usain Bolt). They don’t start out as runty string beans and build themselves up. There’s no way someone like me could compete against this body type. I have a marathoner’s physique. Tiny bones, wiry muscles that would never magically turn into the plump ‘fast twitch’ muscles that give you that kind of power and speed.

Of course running 140 miles per week will have some effect on your bodymass. But when it comes to non-athletes, 7-10 hours of moderate exercise per week is far above average, and usually not enough to make a difference in the way your body looks without diet changes. it can make a huge difference in your level of fitness, but it’s not going to be very visible.

[Zsofia]

Usain Bolt has a very anomalous body type for a sprinter - he’s evidently one of those weird one-offs. Most sprinters are also tiny little people with powerful legs.

[rhubarbarin]

@Zsofia

Usain Bolt has a very anomalous body type for a sprinter - he’s evidently one of those weird one-offs. Most sprinters are also tiny little people with powerful legs.

They are lean, of course, but I wouldn’t call any of these people ‘tiny’:

http://collegeotr.s3.amazonaws.com/images/blogs/ddd03abf66ec39b446862732a5f93743.jpg

http://www.elitefeet.com/wp-content/uploads/marion-jones-relay-team.jpg

Especially when compared to these people:

http://www.iaaf.org/mm/photo/competitions/olympics/27258_w400xh600.jpg

http://www.askaboutireland.ie/aai-files/assets/libraries/waterford-city-library/reading-room/sport/john-treacy-winning-silver-in-the-1984-olympic-marathon.jpg

http://www.iaaf.org/mm/photo/competitions/competition/04/78/79/47879_full-prt.jpg

You see what I mean?