I didn’t mean they aren’t heavily muscled - they are, and look completely different from distance runner. I meant they tend to be short.
Ok, so I’m not 300lbs and 5’2 by any means. I’m 5’9 and 212lbs this morning. That sounds like a lot I guess, but I grew up doing a lot of martial arts in highschool, was in the marines and tended to be around 170-180, which was always above the ‘recommended’ weight for my height. I am large framed and I carry a lot of weight in my abnormally large legs (26 inch thighs and 18 inch calves - but my biceps have only ever been at most 16 inches). That said, I’m not making excuses, because I am more than 30lbs heavier than I was at what I felt my optimal weight was at 15% bodyfat. I spent about 3 years seriously working out (powerlifting) and running (not marathons though, lol).
How I got this way, I can only blame alcohol, school and a sedentary career path (IT). Also, during college I lost motivation to work out and while I still did stuff on the weekends (bike riding mostly) with the wife, I sat in front of a computer the majority of the time.
I ate healthy though. I don’t like Fast food much, though 2-3 times a month I’d have a beer and 12 wings at the local sports bar. I love veggies of almost any kind (though bok choy tastes funny raw) and rarely eat beef (I’d eat a steak probably once a month). The serving size wasn’t much. I’m only pointing this out because I’ve been told beer/wine can’t make you fat. I eat healthy and watch my portion size almost always. 5 years of drinking and occasionally eating bigger meals made me gain the extra weight.
It was gradual, and I didn’t see it until I started getting out of breath walking up stairs. The last couple weeks I’ve been going to the gym regularly and plan on sticking with it (actually wanting to get back into powerlifting/olympic lifting seriously), but as sad as it is, I don’t want to give up beer entirely. I’d rather work the excess calories off… (is that sad?)
ETA, I can see some people ignoring that fact or not caring and getting farther along without really realizing just how bad they look. If I didn’t have a Physical Therapist for a wife, and a background in fitness, I’d probably not care as much about the out of breath thing.
Yeah, it seems like most people I’ve encountered who have lost a significant amount of weight became motivated to do so after an epiphanal moment – say, seeing yourself in a photo and not recognizing yourself, or getting out of breath walking up a single flight of stairs inside your own house. (I give these as examples because those were actually the two things that finally kicked me in the ass and made me get serious about fitness and weight loss.) It’s not like I ever consciously decided, “You know, I’m cool with being 70 pounds overweight.” It’s more like, 10 pounds overweight doesn’t feel or look THAT much different from 5 pounds. And then once you’re used to that, 15 pounds isn’t THAT much different from 10… and then suddenly you see yourself in your aunt’s Facebook photos of the family reunion, and you’re like, “God, that person really needs to put down the chicken wing,” and you realize, “Shit, that’s me.”
Also, it’s totally not sad to want to exercise a bit more so you can eat a bit more. One of the nice things about running for me is that I’m burning such a high number of calories per week that I have a lot more wiggle room in my diet than I would otherwise. I still stick to my dietary plan for the most part, but if I want to add in an extra serving here and there, or eat something that’s a bit higher-calorie than I normally would, I can do so and still continue my weight loss.
What the heck are you going on about?
Because that’s not how it works. At all. I am not saying “Oh no don’t take the cookies don’t do it noooo” as I watch in horror as my arm reaches out against my will and places the cookies in the cart. What I say is “wow, I’d like a cookie right now.” Forget monkeys - it’s my conscious mind talking. My desires versus my restraint, both of which are conscious functions of the same kind, and which cannot possibly be “shut off” separately by any external effect.
Seriously “exquisite level of bodily control such that, next time you are in the store in front of the cookies, you command your hand not to pick them up”? What were you, possessed by devils or something? My hand is ***my ***hand. It does what I say. Always has, and Thor willing, always will.
And in contrast, I have very few problems - or rather, none of my problems are sufficiently terrible to merit action. I’m not a millionaire, but I’m never short of cash. My job’s not fun, but it’s okay. My relationships are as good as I can make them, within the limits of what I can control. My fitess, and my weight, is and was, fine. And actually Boise’s not a bad place to live, depending on what you’re into.
Seriously, the weight didn’t bother me. Sure, I weighed 350 pounds and not an ounce of it was muscle, but I’m six foot tall and wore it reasonably well. (My proof of this is a conversation I had a few months ago: “Bill, have you lost weight? You look ten or twenty pounds thinner!” “Uh, actually I’m down fifty.”) There is a level of fatness which I find repellent, but even with the weight I was I was nowhere close to it.
And then I got diabetes. Did this give me an epiphany about my weight or fitness? Nope. I still feel fine and don’t feel repelled by my physical state. (Good thing too, because I can’t even see those ten pounds of difference.) Even the diabetes itself isn’t an immidiate concern; I can control it perfectly well with pills. Sufficiently that despite the decidedly non-diabetic-approoved directions my diet swings at times, I haven’t detected a speck of difference in myself.
So, what was the effect of the diabetes? I got this vague, unspecified threat of very very bad things happening to me, in like twenty or thirty years. This was enough to impell me to some small level of vague action, but it doesn’t quite have the force of an immidiate threat, if you know what I mean.
So yeah. Light a fire under my own ass? I don’t have anything to fuel such a fire! My problems just aren’t that problematic. Heck, it’s surprising I’m bothering with this diet thing at all. Suffice to say, with this weak level of motivation, effort level and suffering definitely remain relevent concerns.
Maybe she doesn’t eat as much junk food?
Not to say that exercise doesn’t burn calories - it’s just very, very bad at it. Extraordinaly inefficient. (Or rather, the body is extraordinarly efficient in how it uses calories, to give credit where credit is due.) Of course, if you want to get results out of something that has marginal effect, you can accomplish this by doing a massive amount of it. So yeah, she probably prevents a few pounds of weight gain with those 140 miles. Not enough for me to care, though - especially since I will never in a million years run 140 miles a week. (Or a month. Or a year.)
And if she was happy I doubt it was because of a runner’s high. (I mean, she wasn’t running at the time, in that elevator. Was she?) It may surprise you to learn that there are in fact other reasons to be happy besides exercise - but nonetheless, it’s true.
My theory about getting weight loss from exercise is that with that and two bucks you can get a cup of coffee. It is at best taking the scenic route to your destination.
You’d still gain one pound less of fat than you otherwise would, if it was as linear as you’re saying. Which it clearly isn’t.
This is indeed how it usually happens.
Well that is a major difference right there. I was already miserable, couldn’t see it getting any better and expected it to get worse. Not unless I tried hard to do something about it. So who knows, maybe exercise (and working like a maniac, moving, everything else- the fitness thing came last actually) actually is a miserable thing to do but I didn’t notice because I was already miserable. It did work though, things are going well for me now.
You’re basically fine with your weight and seemingly wouldn’t care if it wasn’t for the health issue. I think that is valid- I think the OP is kind of a jerk for pointing fingers.
I got a growing sense of urgency from my circumstances. It had been building up for years.
I guess that answers the OP. Being overweight doesn’t matter very much. Except to jerk onlookers. Congratulations, begbert.
I’d ask her, but honestly have no way to contact her again AFAIK.
pshaw. Even at my very nuttiest I didn’t come close to 140 miles.
I think you underestimate the benefits of exercise. My observation is the more out-of-shape a person is, the faster they benefit from it. But that is IMHO.
And yeah, the body is an amazing device. 'Nuff said.
Well, there was the Olympic gold medal. And my fawning on her FWIW. But, you would have to run to understand. I (thought) I could see it. Yes, there are other reasons to be happy, and I appreciate them. But one good run does me for 2-3 days, I sleep better, feel better, am more relaxed. It is my personal experience, YMMV (and surely does). If you ever become miserable, go for a run, it is like a magic bullet.
Yah well I think you’re wrong, but I don’t want to break your balls about it. I probably don’t understand the differences between our diets to be honest.
Exercise isn’t good at helping one lose weight, I’ll gladly give that. In fact, often it can lead to weight gain because of a combination of “I earned this latte” and the fact that exercise makes you hungry.
However, I disagree totally about it not making your happy or otherwise being worthless. Even in an age of wonderful evidence based medicine, exercise is one of the greatest preventative medicines for a whole range of problems. Including depression.
To the already happy, otherwise healthy person, exercise might not contribute much to well being, but it still helps with other problems. Helps… doesn’t cure or prevent 100%. Take that as you will.
I too notice a great difference in attitude and outlook when I exercise. Even as I’m sore and can’t walk up stairs well due to killing my legs with squats, I feel great, I sleep well, and I am randy as a teenager. No pill has ever come close to that (and I suffered from depression in college and have been on several medications because of it).
Also, I don’t do marathon running, the longest distance I run is a 5k. I’m speaking generally about all exercise (though I’d be a spokesman for weightlifting any day).
Well, the OP wasn’t talking about me or my type of fat person, who is largely unaffected by it aside from the occasional deadly disease; he was talking about people who (he presumed) can’t ambulate on their own power. I suspect if I was that fat, so as to be actually impaired by it, that I might start caring.
Not to say that I would see it as a solvable problem by the time I got to that point, mind you, but I could easily care.
(And of course, the OP was a long, long time ago, in this thread. So no foul for forgetting their specific flame-target.)
And my experience is that I purchased and used a stationary bike for an hour a night every night for stretches a year at a time on and off over the last five years, with no discernable effects whatever. No weight loss. No muscle development. No bikers’ high. No nothing.
'Nuff said.
Dude, I have runned. Ran. Rannethed. (Whichever.) You think I’ve lived thirty-three years and have never ran? Trust me, I’ve runannethed. It sucked. Bigtime. It was like hitting my knees with hammers and sucking the oxygen from my very bones - and it was a pain that lingered.
It’s a magic bullet alright. And the next time I want to feel like I’ve been shot, I’ll definitely go out for a run.
lol
So what does this mean for Ayn Rand’s philosophy? A!=A?
Presuming that you’re not posting in the wrong thread, and are instead referring to the disagreement in our experiences about exercise:
…it means that one of us is wrong. And because I am not saying that nobody gets happy from exercise, but only that exerciseophiles’ experiences might be neither typical nor caused by the factors they imagine (ie: the actual physical act of physical exercise itself), I think that the wrong person is unlikely to be me.
I’m pretty sure you get this, but I’d like to emphasize that beer and wine is a great way to get fat.
they have calories, screw with muscle development, and can convince you that late night carne asada fries are a great idea.
How is that not an argument in favor of subjectivism? Assuming: A=running.
Know what? Let’s not veer this into Rand. Personally I think Rand’s problem is turning Subjectivism/Objectivism into Subjectivism v Objectivism, and becoming overly binary about it. But you’d do better to ask someone more informed on that subject.
And there are 2 arguments now. One is that exercise makes you happy. The other is that it is effective.
For the first, it is entirely biological, see this Wiki on the Runner’s High.
Now I can believe that high!=happy. It != sad though either, that’s for sure.
As for the efficacy of exercise for weight loss, mostly the discussion is revolving around personal anecdotes. Look at what we have there:
One of us lit a fire under their own ass; one has not.
One of us has put their fitness (at least in part) in the hands of trained professionals (yoga instructors) more knowledgable on the subject than they; one of us has not.
One of us has experienced dramatic weight loss as a result of serious physical training; one of us has not been involved with serious physical training.
If you were walking in now on this conversation and considered these points, who would you believe?
But the conclusion isn’t going to be that you need to obey me or go change your life or even believe anything else I say. And I’m not saying that dieting doesn’t work- you lost more weight dieting than I lost exercising. I just think you give exercise a bad rap.
FWIW (and I’m leaving out large portions of the article; I just wanted to point out the main points of it):
From NY Times, November 4, 2009
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/04/phys-ed-why-doesnt-exercise-lead-to-weight-loss/?ref=magazine
Yes, but who is saying exercise is necessary for weightloss?
The negation of “researchers have been finding that people who exercise don’t necessarily lose weight” isn’t “exercise is necessary to lose weight” it’s “people who exercise always lose weight.”
Ok, Mr. Pedantic, who is saying “people who exercise always lose weight?”
The part in bold is key. Most people’s eating habits are to eat until they feel full and satiated. Exercise can make you feel hungrier, so it’s very easy to overeat the exercise and even then some. You still need to monitor your eating even if you’re exercising.
Which means he shouldn’t ask me; I don’t know Rand from Randy Savage. I’ve no idea what the goal was in equating me to her anyway.
We have people here claiming that the happy-making effects of exercise last for 2-3 days. This is not a runners high, and it is not biological. This is something that’s all in his head which he is mistaking for a biological runner’s high, out of a fantasy-based overestimation of the biological effects of exercise on the mind.
Similarly, blaming an olympic athelete’s happiness while standing motionless in an elevator, on a biological runner’s high.
While I’m here, I did notice that the linked cite mentioned that you can physically hurt yourself in pushing your limits, pursuing this runners’ high. Running is specificially mentioned as a way of doing this. If I want to hurt myself pursuing a high, there are easier ways to do it, methinks…
I wouldn’t believe the one who gives all credit to the exercise while failing to demonstrate that diet control was not simultaneously occurring. This logic is similar to that employed by people who give credit all the credit to God when strangers are nice to them.
I think I give exercise a fair rap. It’s good for a number of things, not the least of which is some people who care about it might find their self-image improved for a couple of days after demonstrating that they are the kind of person who can do a big workout. (This effect would be very similar in mechanism to the effect of buying yourself a new awesome car and riding around in it.) Exercise improves your musculature, assuming you don’t have too much fat on top to be able to see the difference. And it jiggles around various other things, including cholesterol and blood sugar. Unless you overdo it, it’s not bad for you, and a negligible amount of exercise it very likely good for you. Which is why I exercise a negligible amount. (When I don’t get too busy with other things, anyway.)
But I’m seeing some people here giving it a great deal more credit than I think the facts show it deserves. It’s natural liposuction! It gives you a semi-permanent natural high! It cures arthritis! And probably makes you an inch taller and cures cancer too!
It’s okay to love your hobbies; but let’s stay realistic here.
I know! People are making all sorts of ridiculous claims, such that exercise is equivalent to riding around in a sports car, or that looking good is the only reason to improve your musculature, or that only a “negligible” amount of exercise is good for you. Why DO people make crazy claims like that? 
And if you’re going to take issue with the above, then I’m going to ask you for a cite for people claiming that exercise cures arthritis or is a form of natural liposuction, pls.