How do people who don't know math get into college? Here's one way. (long)

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ve talked about this in other threads before, but I’m still rather embarassed about it. A lot of people tend to assume that the kids in college who have some bizarre deficiency, such as showing up in a history class and not knowing who Hitler was, are the product of family connections or sports scholarships. Sometimes that’s true, sometimes it’s not.

So I had my first day of math class today. I’ve got a little provision stuck on my academic record that says I need to pass Math 095 (super-remedial) in order to graduate from UW. It doesn’t have a course title as far as I know, it’s just called Math 095. I got the provision after I failed a placement test I had to take when transferring into UW last summer. The placement test looked like Chinese.

My mom predicted Math 095 would be full of hulking football players. :rolleyes: There are maybe 25 kids in the class, and only one or two look like they play on sports teams. I was expecting about half the class to be there on learning disability passes, but it seems like that’s not the case either. They all seem to be perfectly normal and otherwise bright students.

As for me, my grades started dropping in junior high. I can’t remember exactly what was going on, but by the time I got to ninth grade algebra, I knew I was in trouble. I’m positive I didn’t get a passing grade (passing grade = not an F) in that class. At one point I was leaving tutoring sessions with “Thanks, see you same time tomorrow.” My combined test grades from the second semester probably didn’t equal a D, and I’m still not sure how I was passed on to geometry.

Looking back, I really should have done something about this, but my attitude about math at the time was “get through it, go to a class you actually like and forget about it, you’ll never see it again.” I wasn’t planning on going to university back then. Once admissions time hit, I took an at-home correspondence algebra class and got the neighborhood genius to try to explain it to me. The 20 and 30 percents still showed up, so I gave it up and focused on things I was good at.

Also, I went to a high school that was under a lot of pressure to send all of their graduates to some sort of college. There were private schools in the area that had 98% admission rates to out-of-state schools or something insane like that, so my school had some serious competition.

We had to take three years of math. When I started flailing in geometry as well, I went to the guidance counselor, who said “You know, there’s a math class called Advanced Concepts in Mathematics. It reviews pre-algebra and a little bit of algebra, and if you have the name of the class on your transcript, it tricks colleges into thinking you took an advanced third year math class.” This is more or less a direct quote. (From my current advisor’s reaction when I explained to her how I had gotten into college without passing Algebra I, this seems to be a pretty widespread practice in high schools.)

Advanced Concepts in Mathematics was the stereotypical basic class where doing poorly was physically impossible. We had maybe one homework assignment a month, and class consisted of watching the teacher do the problems for us on the chalkboard. By the end of the year, we’d only gotten to fractions and percents. It was supposed to be my last math class ever, so I didn’t care anymore.

Some of the kids in Advanced Concepts had gotten that far in high school and couldn’t add or subtract, which even I found pretty unbelievable.

And yes, the equivalent of Advanced Concepts existed in other subjects too. My friend was in a British Lit class where they read most of the material aloud in class and made powerpoint presentations instead of writing papers.

And as for the college part -
I got rejected from most of the places I applied to. Only one school took me. If I’d stayed there, I never would have seen a math problem again. I kept my grades up, tried again, and got into UW.

Enter the placement exams and Math 095. In a way, I’m kind of glad I have to take it. The book’s table of contents looks like this: Whole Numbers, Fractions, Decimals, Ratio and Proportion, Percent, Measurement, Geometry, Statistics, Signed Numbers, Introduction to Algebra. Kind of comforting knowing that there are 25 other people in my school who don’t know this stuff either.

Anyway, there’s an optional tutoring session for Math 095 that meets twice a week. It’ll be a small group, and I’m willing to bet that the other kids have similar stories. Luckily, this class doesn’t seem to be another Advanced Concepts - it’s loaded with review sessions, homework and quizzes.

I thought long and hard before posting this thread. I don’t want it to seem as though I think I’m entitled to a higher education even though I can’t subtract fractions with different denominators, or that I’m justifying my ignorance by blaming it on my high school. I guess I’ve just seen a lot of people lately saying “How in the hell do you get into college without knowing ___________?” and wanted to provide one possible explanation. And if any of this sounds too weird to be true, feel free to post questions.

2

My name is Joey G, and I didn’t go to high school.

I applied to my university and took a placement test, and they stuck me in a remedial math class also. I enjoyed it, because I knew I would go on to college algebra and trig having a solid background. I was probably better off than the people who had it all in high school, since I was getting my foundation in math from the same people who were going to teach me all my college math classes.

The thing that amazed me about college is how average everyone is. I envisioned a place where everyone is a genius, and everyone knows more than I do. Turns out everyone here is human, after all :slight_smile:

I’m with ya, brother.

3

Remember its never to late to learn. A lot of people get frustrated when they are having a hard time in something, and often it gets to the point in which they give up. My best friend’s mom had a hard time with history, and when she went back to school (recently) she had an incredibly frustrating time with it. She absolutely didn’t want anything to do with it- and her attitude really hurt her.

Its my view that everybody learns at their own level, and while we need to establish standards for education, not everyone is going to fit under that bell-shaped curve. The fact that you are going to college is testament enough for your desire to move on to better things.

just look at me im a english major and is terrible at sentence syntax :wink:

4

Most of the remedial classes at my college seem to be filled with “non-traditional students” of one sort or another. A lot of them are people who went from high schools to factories and other jobs that don’t require much previous education and then decided they wanted to do something else with their lives. Then there’s all the GED people (like myself) who couldn’t or wouldn’t finish high school (pregnancies, family troubles, in my case stupidity . . . sort of).

I only took remedial–or at my school, “developmental”–courses in math. Which is weird because most math is easier for me than for most of the other people I know. I simply didn’t take many math courses during my brief high school career.

5

Well, I can blame high school for never teaching me trig (which is damn important when you try to do calculus).

I took some regular math clases, and some advanced science classes, which apparently was a faux-pas in high school. When we got to trig in advanced physics, everyone else had learned it in advanced math. When we got to trig in regular math, everyone else had learned it in regular physics.

Grrr.

6

:smiley: There are people who can assist you if you continue to have difficulties with maths. With your approach, they will be more than willing.

7

Ahhh, thanks for asking this question [to the OP] as I failed math all through school and high school and now I’m wanting to get into college, but I’m afraid that my low-low-low maths abilities will get in the way. I’ve thought of a way around it though. I’m going to do year 11 and 12 again [through TAFE…Aussies will know what that is] and do maths through that. Hopefully I’ll learn enough to get a good great which will in turn enable me to get into the course I want.

And if not, well, at least I tried.

8

I took OAC algebra, calculus & some other math course (I can’t even remember what they called it…it was basically stats). I got 95 % or better in all three.
When I started university two months later I had to completely relearn calculus. I had forgotten everything. Classmates couldn’t understand how I made it into eng without taking a calculus class. I had to explain that I had taken it, and the stuff we were taking wasn’t any different from what I had take the last year of high school (I looked through my old text, it was the same beginning level calculus that I should have known how to do).

9

I am also taking my long-dreaded college math course, or as I like to think of it, Bi-Weekly Reminder That Sugaree Is Stupid, this semester.

I tricked a university into accepting me by doing well in non-math community college courses.

Want to start a support group?

10

One term, in grad school, I tutored at an adult education center in “the model cities” part of town (read “ghetto”). The students had to take some basic math classes before they could transfer to the Univ. and then take the equiv. of your Math 095. These people were hard working and interesting, and I admired them a lot.

I have never cared what a person’s background is, only that they are interested in learning. If you are not interested in learning, you’re wasting my time and yours.

*2 murders and a body found within 1 block during that term. Fun, fun, fun.

11

I took Japanese Math class (Kumon[sp?]) throughout grades 4-9 exceeding OAC math requirements by grade 8. I skipped grade 9 and 10 maths and then…grade 11 rolls around and I barely pass. I think my resentment of math (forced into taking that Jap math) caused me to rebel at doing good in math.

I then take my first college course (microcomputer analyst) not knowing where I was going to really end up taking and I fail the math! Sheesh. So I jumped into a computer networking admin course (no math) and now make more money than all my other friends who finished the course (I’m missing some UNIX courses, which I really don’t want to take so I need to go back for another semester).

I figure you don’t really need math other than your basics (I can do most general math in my head on the fly). For all other complex math, I use my pocket pc or the Internet :smiley:

12

I was bad at math even in third grade; we had to get a tutor to help me learn to MULTIPLY, for God’s sake. By the time I hit algebra I was lost. I ended up in Pre-Algebra in 9th grade and Algebra 1 in 10th – I failed that. Then we moved to a different state to a district where I was only required to have 2 years of math total, and I squeaked by Algebra 1 in 11th grade. No more math! Yay! Yippee!

Fast-forward five years. I finally take the SATs as part of admissions requirements to a small state university and kick ass at the verbal but barely get the minimum required for math. Then on a placement test I got placed in the top of THREE math-for-dummies classes they had. I finally passed THAT on my third and final try. Then I passed a basic college algebra class on my third try. I had to take a basic stats class for psychology, but that wasn’t so bad; at least we could use calculators. And aside from memorizing the formulas, it was just plugging numbers in.

Algebra is not my friend. I took an extra semester of science – geology, which was not easy – just to avoid more math. I just DO NOT GET IT and at this point I don’t think I ever will.

13

My post-HS freshman math experience, in a nutshell.

Algebra II - HS sophomore year
1st week: Confused.
2nd week: Really, really confused, and utterly baffled as to why this is so hard when my previous algrebra course went by so smoothly.
3rd week onward: Beyond hope.

Some Geometry - some summer
1st week: Confused.
2nd week: Confused and dead last in the class.
3rd-next to final week: Absolutely hate everything and wish I was dead. Still dead last in the class.
Final week: Change that, wish my dad was dead for signing me up for this stupid course.

Trigonometry and Algebra III - HS junior year
1st week: Don’t understand a thing and hate the teacher’s guts.
2nd-3rd week: Barely understand a thing and really, REALLY hate the teacher’s guts.
4th week onward: Wish these stupid mutant courses had never been invented and the teacher would get run over by an 18-wheeler.

Community college math placement test (there were three of them; I picked II because it covered material I’d taken earlier…you know, things like trigonometry and advanced algebra)
Got something like 30th percentile…report sheet suggested that “you should’ve taken the I, you dummy.” (Okay, not in so many words, but that was the gist.)

Algebra II - ill-fated first semester in CC
No. I don’t even want to go there. In fact, anything at all involving my early college experience, I’d rather not revisit.

Intro to Statistics - CC summer session
First two weeks: Wonderfully informative and enjoyable; tremendous insight into all kinds of real-life issues. A great course.
Next two weeks: Getting into the tricky stuff. Less real-world, more theoretical. Not so interesting.
Final two weeks: Gah, it’s trigonometry TIMES advanced Algebra! The pain! The pain!

And finally…
Statistics - “Real” college summer session
“First 30 days, you don’t know s***. Last 30 days, you don’t give a s***.” - Brownie, Casualties of War
Replace “30 days” with “4 classes”, and you have an idea of how this went for me.
(I got a better grade in this than for Albegra II, Algebra III, or Trigonometry, BTW.)
Students have trouble with math? Gee, I also hear that politicians don’t always tell the truth. This is nothing. And don’t assume that college students know everything and are motivated to do their best in each and every class. I never got anywhere near that stage, and I graduated.

Remedial math? Heck, I wish I had that option! Trust me, if you’re as driven to do well as you sound, you’ll do fine.

14

Daowajan, here’s the only advice I can give.

(1) Find a question that baffles you
(2) Post in on the SDMB asking for help
(3) Stride briskly away and never, under any circumstances, read that thread again, because I guarantee that it will devolve into people arguing with each other about minutiae that is irrelevant to the question you asked.

But it might be good for some laffs :slight_smile:

15

One method is this:
Do poorly in all your math classes after 9th grade. Don’t go full out getting D’s all along, but make it a gradual progression. Get B’s in 9th grade, C’s in 10th grade(also cry when you find out that the teacher you didn’t understand the year before is your teacher again), D’s in 11th grade, and pass math in 12th grade by a point, so you have a solid D- average for the year. While doing this understand nothing you’re being taught. Really, you must understand nothing for this to work correctly. Argue with your guidance person about the wisdom of taking that class you think you’ll fail from the outset (that’d be the grade 12 class). Give in and take it even though you know it will kill your GPA for the year. (and later curse the man when you learn that the colleges you applied to do not insist that you have taken it prior to graduating high school. God damn liar.)

At the same time, get A’s and B’s (except for that one C in Spanish during a quarter of Spanish 2) in all of your other classes, including math-heavy science classes, like physics (wire your brain so you can do math that isn’t completely abstract and has a “point” so word-problems sort of make sense to you even though solving X=y5 doesn’t)

Take the SATs and get two hundred points more on the verbal section than the math.

Apply to both colleges you’re contemplating attending, as a English major. Be accepted to both.

YMMV, but it worked pretty well for me, and neither of the schools I applied seemed that concerned by my lack of understanding math. They didn’t seem very concerned that I barely passed my one college math class, either, though.

16

Damn…
I feel so much better now.

My situation?
9th grade-take algebra. Not that easy. Not that hard. After many efforts to get teacher to help me he does what he always does. He says “What would be your solution to the problem?” I’d ask again. " I’m so lost I don’t even know where to begin!!! Please HELP ME!!!" I pass with a C-.

10th grade- geometry. Argh…Not getting easier. This time the teacher is actually helpful but since I didn’t do so well in algebra, I’m still kind of at loss. I pass with another C-.

Enter 11th grade. Guidance counselor sees that I’m not really good with math. Suggests I take business math instead of Adv. Algebra since its so obvious that I’d do just as horribly. I take business math. Easy as pie. I’m doing things like balancing checkbooks, light bookkeeping, etc. I pass with a B. I could have gotten an A, but I slacked on the extra credit.

Now here I am 23 years old. I started Community college 2 years ago with a friend. When we took our “entrance exams” he was done an hour before me. I got stuck on the math part. I get my results. It is highly recommended that I take Algebra 1. So I take it with friend. He wants easy credits and says he’ll help me. First month of class, not that hard. Friend is actually helping me and I’m feeling good because I’m starting to learn stuff. Second month, I’m starting to struggle. There is simply too much information being put in my brain. I dont’ know what to memorize and to forget. Third month I stop showing up to classes. After failing two tests and fighting with the friend who helped I decide that I’m doomed. I drop out of CC.

So here I am. Saving money to go back to community college. I’m going to have to take Algebra alllllll over again because I am a quitter. I’m not looking forward to it since I will be 2 months shy of being 24 while most of the people in algebra are either highschool students taking college credits or are freshly out of highschool.

17

I’m mathmatically challanged, always have been.

I always felt bad about it, as my course schedule in high school was constantly off-balance.

AP English, AP History, English 1010, AP Physiology…Algebra 1.

I’m ahead in the rest of my classes, and always two years behind in math. For whatever reason, I could never live that down. I failed at anything math-based. I BARELY passed Chemestry, and I forever regret taking that class. I didn’t learn anything from it, and it killed my GPA.

I took my ACTs, and my combined score was only 22, thanks to my lousy math score - which I believe was 17 or so.

When taking placement tests to get into college, I fully expect to be placed in remedial math, and I don’t care - just as long as I learn what I need to keep going. Since all the other subjects click just fine with me, I don’t think I’m a complete moron. :slight_smile:

18

My math struggles started in 7th grade, when I switched schools. They covered stuff there in 6th grade, that my old school didn’t touch until 7th.

Struggled through that and 8th grade pre-algebra.

High school…Honors algebra 1. Big mistake. Horrid teacher, and me already frustrated with math. Barely passed.

Honors Geometry. I just didn’t get it. Well, the only part I did get were the “reverse proofs” where you try to prove that the opposite is true. Only passed because my teacher gave me 2 points for doing all the work, going to extra help sessions and generally working my tail off.

Average algebra 2. Same teacher as honors geometry. Got it! Only because my mother sent me to an algebra 1 review course the summer before at another school. I hated going, but I obviously learned something, because I passed algebra 2 with an A.

Average trig/pre-calc. Again, passed well - I credit this to more confidence after the good experience I had in algebra 2.

Then I head to college, going in as a biology/pre-med student. I took Babybio, Babychem, calculus, intro German and another non-science class. Didn’t understand the chemistry math because I hadn’t had calculus. Despite trying desperately, couldn’t pass calculus. Withdrew failing from calculus, withdrew from chemistry (technically I was failing that, but because I’d done the work, professor gave a withdraw). Tried to take calculus that summer at the local university. Passed, but with a D-. Credit didn’t transfer because I needed a D for it to.
Gave up the biology major. Became a history major. To get my math requirement in, I took “introduction to mathematics”. I wrote a fictional story for my final exam in that class. Got an A.

Then I got a job where I used math a lot. Go figure.

19

I believe it. While I am actually good at math (Two grades ahead during HS), I’ve seen friends and other students graduate barely knowing basic math skills. IMHO, in HS they only care if you’re smart. If you happen to be one of the struggling students, they’ll just pass you to get you out of school. Incidently, I don’t regard a HS diploma of much value.

However, if you are one of the struggling students and actually get into college, take advantage of that and actually try to better yourself. I think college is more conductive to learning for everyone in general. I know when I was in HS, if you weren’t part of the “Honors” clique, you generally didn’t try to do better even if you could and wanted to. In college, most everyone who is there is there for a reason (to get a degree) so everyone has a focus to do good.

Some colleges have really low standards or none at all (Alot of community colleges fit this) However, getting into college doesn’t really mean anything by itself, it’s what you accomplish while you are there is what counts.

20

if it’s any help at all i suck at maths.
never went to a class after age 16.

can just about do algebra (the letters confuse me less than the numbers) and physics equations, but trig and differential calculus is beyond me. i can’t do long division without a calculator.

you know the way that chemistry is all about sigmoidal curves and pH and stuff? i can barely do it.

but i can cram enough and learn enough by rote to pass exams, so here i am in my third year of a medical degree having passed every exam first time.

so i feel for you, and don’t worry, there’s more to life than simultaneous eqations!