How do pilot and copilot share handling the main controls on an airplane? Do they ever both hold and influence the yoke or the pedals (or whatever these things are called) at the same time? Are they naturally doing exactly the same thing, or do they feel each other in a sort of a tug of war because they vary somewhat in their moves? Maybe there are two of them there so that either one is instantly in place and available if something goes wrong with the other, but normally only one would be active on the controls at any given moment? Or, are there any times when it’s important that both of them be influencing control simultaneously? Finally, is there any way that they can distinguish the feel of the other pilot’s efforts from the feel of the aircraft’s resistance?
IANAP, but your question brought to mind a passage from an old Atlantic Monthly article (subscription required, I’m afraid) concerning the crash of EgyptAir 990. This was the flight that crashed into the Atlantic in mid-1999 after (the NTSB report concluded) the co-pilot intentionally put the plane into a dive. Among other things, the flight-data recorder led investigators to conclude that the pilot and co-pilot were trying to do opposite things in the cabin as the plane was diving:
The way it’s supposed to work is that at all times there should be a very clear understanding about who is pilot-in-command, and what role(s) others will play. In nearly all situations, only one pilot actually needs to be doing something (and sometimes - with an autopilot - the plane can fly just fine without human attention).
Only one pilot is “on the controls” at a time. However, there are duties the other can be handling to help out, not having to do with the controls.
During some practice runs during instrument training, I was landing with a visor on. We made approximately three landings and were on the last approach. The instructor pushed up my visor and said something that made me believe he was taking the controls. For a split instant, we looked at each other with both sets of hands off the controls. Then he realized what was happening and took over. It made for a couple of smiles after we were on the ground, but also served as a warning to both of us.
The idea of “co-pilot” and “pilot” is a little misleading. In an airline operation there is the Captain and the First Officer (and sometimes one or two others depending on aircraft type, but they don’t handle the controls except in certain circumstances).
The Captain and FO essentially do the same job. Their checklists vary because they sit on opposite sides of the cockpit and have different equipment and switches close at hand, and the captain is always the person who makes the decisions–with the input of the other crew members. However, in day to day flying they will normally take turns at flying the aircraft.
On a typical day you might fly three sectors, a-b, b-c, then c-d with each sector terminating at an airport. On the first sector the FO might be the “pilot flying” and the captain will be the “pilot not flying”, on subsequent sectors they will swap roles.
For take off and landing the PF manipulates the controls with the PNFs support, PF calls for checklists to be read, calls for flap and gear selections, and for input into the flight computers. PNF deals with radio calls and monitors what PF is doing.
In the cruise there isn’t much direct manipulation of the controls and both pilots will be mainly monitoring the aircraft’s automated systems. In the flying that I do, there is fairly constant manoeuvering conducted throughout the flight and the PNF will sometimes fly for a bit to give the PF a break, eat some food, go to the toilet or whatever. There is a formal hand over process which involves setting the new pilot up with correct instrument settings, control of the autopilot, and requirement for radio calls etc.
In the event of an emergency, the captain may elect to take over as the pilot flying, or they may prefer the FO to continue flying leaving more brain power to the captain for making decisions. Once again there will be a definite hand over process, most likely abbreviated.
Regardless of who will be flying the aircraft during flight, on the ground the captain will be taxiing the aircraft while the FO looks after the radio. This is because the “tiller”–a steering wheel arrangement for steering the aircraft on the ground–is on the captain’s side. So if you happen to hear a voice on the radio making taxi calls, that’s the FO, if you then hear a different voice on the radio just after take off, that’s the captain and the FO is the pilot flying for that sector.
With regard to MikeS’s post above, it is to try and avoid situations like those quoted, that there is a clear distinction between the PF and the PNF and a clear process involved in the changing of responsibilities. If the captain can see that the FO is making a hash of the landing then he should say “taking over” or words to that effect (normally stipulated in the airline’s operations manual) and the FO should relinquish control.
By taking turns.
Not usually. I can think of three different situations where they might, though, one good and two bad.
The good one is in learning - particularly with begining student pilots, the student may rest their hands and feet lightly on the controls while the instructor manipulates them to get a better understanding of how to perform manuvers. However, in this situation the instructor is clearly the one in control and the student is not to exert force or influence on the controls.
The first Bad Thing involves beginning students, where there IS the possibility of the student going into a panic and “locking up” or “freezing” on the controls, at which point the instructor has to find a way to remove them. This can also happen with passengers in very small planes where they sit up front next to the pilot. They aren’t supposed to touch anything, but sometimes they do. Being on the small side, I was somewhat concerned about the possibility of one day wrestling a six foot for the controls - there are techniques for dealing with this situation and they are taught to student pilots, particular if said students ask about the possibility
The second Bad Thing would be Something Had Gone Very Wrong - if I recall correctly, the Sioux City Iowa crash with captain Al Hayes involved THREE pilots all manipulating the controls at the same time in an attempt to control a very heavily damaged airplane. There have been other instances where something has gone horribly wrong resulting two pilots on the main controls at the same time, but fortunately these situations are rare.
Well, everyone has a slightly different style of using the controls, but for the most part in normal flight any pilot will look at a given situation, or listen to an air traffic control request, and react/perform in a very similar manner. If I’m sitting next to someone and an airport tower says “turn to a heading of 180 and descend to 1500 feet” I pretty much know how the pilot flying is going to go about doing that.
The real danger of two people on the controls at the same time isn’t two pilots flying one airplane… the danger is that, with neither one clearly in full command/control you might wind up with no one flying the airplane. Airplanes tend to keep going in the direction you point them at the same speed and altitude until told otherwise, so it is quite possible that without a clear assignment of who’s in control you could have two pilots up front each certain the other is flying, with neither really paying close attention, for a surprisingly long amount of time before anything happens to indicate no one is in charge of the machine.
Another circumstance is the person who is always “helping” the other pilot without being asked (or even after being asked not to). It’s rude and it says you don’t trust the other pilot to fly the plane in a competant manner. I really hope that doesn’t happen with the airlines, but it does happen in the small planes I fly from time to time. I mean, if you don’t trust me just say so - either I won’t go at all or let’s just have you do all the work and avoid the cussing and yelling that seem an inevitable outcome of this scenario. It’s alright to help - but you ask first so the pilot flying knows what’s going on. Having the airplane suddenly do something you didn’t ask it to do can be disconcerting, to say the least.
The big exception to that - if some other plane or object is about to crash into the aircraft it is acceptable for the non-flying pilot to suddenly yell “MY PLANE!”, seize the controls, and get everyone out of danger. Safety first and all that. Of course, we all try to avoid those situations to begin with.
That is corrrect.
I think I covered that earlier in my reply.
Um… yes and no. I mean the airplane is not, on its own, going to suddenly make a crisp, perfect 180 degree turn while perfectly maintaining a set bank angle and altitude - unless it’s on an autopilot that can do that. But for more subtle movements, it can be hard to distinguish other pilot vs. airplane/environment. In the learning environment the distinction is usually made clear. Sometimes it’s not though - if the non-flying pilot has a foot up against a rudder pedal while taxiing, for instance, the result will lead to a question of whether there’s something wrong with the wheel/brake/steering on that side, or if the other guy’s foot is causing some interference. This is usually dealt with by saying something like “Hey, you haven’t got your foot on a pedal, do you?” followed by a brief muttered apology if that is the case. As to how something like that could happen - well, YOU stretch your legs and move your feet when sitting for awhile, don’t you? So do pilots. Problem is, there’s this stuff down there where their feet are and, being human, occassionally they bump or jostle it while stretching. Not hard enough for it to be a problem, but enough so their fellow pilot might notice.
At least on my level of flying, the normal practice is to determine, prior to starting the engine, who is going to start the engine, take the plane out to the runway, take the lead in performing various checklists, and take-off. Actually, we normally negotiate who’s flying what part of the flight before we even get into the airplane. (The airlines have an even more formalized system) If we switch who is flying while en route the custom is to say “Your airplane” to signify you are yielding control, and the answer should be “My airplane” to acknowledge control has been exchanged. It is my understanding that this is similar, if not identical, to what the airlines do. As I mentioned before under Bad Things Happening, if you need to take control you start with “My plane!” - in general, if I don’t trust a person enough to respect that sort of urgent request I’m not flying with them. In such case the abbreviated reply is usually “Yours!”
I have a question along these lines for the pilots on board. I have seen IRL (on smaller commercial a/c), and on TV, both pilots with their hands on the throttles at take off. Specifically, one pilot is actually moving the throttles, and the other has their hand placed directly behind the throttle stems. It would appear to me that the person with their hands behind the stems is acting as some sort of safety, as they aren’t actually pushing the throttles, and I’ve only seen it on takeoff.
My WAG, is this is done to prevent any type of accidental decrease in thrust at a time when you need it most. So what’s the dope?
When I am flying with another pilot we have a simple way to transfer control.
Pilot #1 says “You have control the airplane”
Pilot #2 says “I have control of the airplane"
If I don’t hear Pilot #2 acknowledge control I don’t relinquish it.
FWIW
Jim
Ahm, the Pilot is PIC during the entire flight. PIC does not indicate who is manipulating the controls. But, only one person is doing this at a time. The other would probably have assigned tasks (scanning instruments).
Right - I should have said “on the controls”.
Echoing a lot of what’s been said and adding some additional detail.
In normal circumstances in a dual piloted aircraft, one pilot flies and the other does pretty much everything else (navigation, tuning radios, troubleshooting minor problems etc.). The two pilots will occassionally swap who’s the PAC (Pilot at Controls, in US Navy terminology). This might be done to relieve boredom or stress, allow the other pilot to eat or take a leak, or to facilitate troubleshoooting (e.g. if the circuit breaker that needs resetting is on the side of the cockpit of the current PAC).
There is a clear delineation of who’s on the controls at any time. There is always at least a two way acknowledgement (“I have the controls” “Roger, you have the controls”). More than few aircraft have been flown into the water with no one at the controls. When giving up controls, I go as far as reaching across the cockpit and tapping the other pilot on the shoulder as if to say “hey, I’m tapping you, so my hands are not on the controls.”
There are a few scenarios, all of which are fairly uncommon, where both pilots may elect to be on the controls simultaneously. One already mentioned is in training. Another is in hydraulic failure situations where the PAC may not have enough muscle power to manipulate the controls (eg it takes a lot of leg strength to move the pedals of certain helicopters with a hydraulic boost failure). Another, particular to helicopters, is a total engine loss. This requires the PAC to take immediate (~1 second) action to prevent catastrophic results. The other pilot (PNAC) may go ahead and make the necessary control inputs. If the PAC has vertigo or is somehow not flying the aircraft appropriately, the PNAC may assume the controls. These scenarios is usually briefed ahead of times so each pilots understands what circumstance the PNAC may come on the controls and whether that does or does not constitute a full change of controls.
And as mentioned the Aircraft Commander (or pilot in command, whatever terminology you like) is the person who is responsible for the safe and effective completion of the aircraft’s mission. He/She may or may not be on the controls and this role does not change back and forth during the flight. SO if I sign for an aircraft and my co-pilot balls it up on landing, I am still ultimately responsible (though the CP will get hammered too).
A side question related to that - roughly what percentage of CFIT (controlled flight into terrain) incidents result from those “I thought Bill was flying it” scenarios while everyone in the cockpit is absorbed with figuring out why the Lives Remaining gauge is indicating zero? More likely, why an indicator lamp’s not coming on, or trying to determine the exact status of the flaps. Next thing they know, somone glances out the window and screams “TREEEEEES!” or “MOUNTAINNNN!” :eek:
Your thread.
I believe it was Eastern Flight 401 that did this. All three members of the flight crew were absorbed with changing a burnt out indicator light that they forgot to fly the airplane. A slight nudge against the yoke disengaged the autopilot resulting in a slow descent. The indicator was the green nose-wheel down and locked lamp. The pilots even gravity-dropped the nose gear resulting in a locked position that could not be retracted even if they wanted to, but they still didn’t get a green light. They assumed that the lamp was defective so they set about changing it. The plane, a Lockheed L-1011 crashed into the Everglades. The crash led to a redesign of the autopilot, making it more difficult and more obvious to disengage, and a redesign of the indicator lamps, making them easier to change.
Then came the ghost stories…
Another side question …
Am I right in thinking that pilot and co-pilot are taken from the same “pool”, and is no indicator of seniority - IOW the CP may have general seniority / more experience, but is working under the pilot for that particular flight?
Both the Captain and the First Officer are fully qualified ATP’s (Air Transport Pilots). The First Officer is the more junior of the pilots in the company hierarchy and is paid less. The First Officer is in line to be the Captain some day based on time logged as a First Officer. This is soley based on the airline and the number of Captain slots that open up before the First Officer is promoted.
I suppose you could have two people with the airline rank of Captain flying the plane but only one would be the pilot in command.
Here is British Airways Hierachy:
http://www.bavirtual.co.uk/admin/pilotinfo/rank&promotion.htm
In US Naval aviation this varies. Generally, after getting a certain amount of experience and passing a check flight / oral exam board, a pilots earns the deisgnation of aircraft commander. This means they’re eligible to sign for an aircraft and go fly it with a crew. Typically once designated, an aircraft commander will be scheduled to fly with a designated second pilot (aka a 2P). Obviously, the pilot with the aircraft commander designation is the one who gets to be PIC.
Sometimes, it may be necessary to fly two pilots together who are both designated aircraft commanders. The flight schedule, which is the squadron CO’s written order about who flies what and when, will specify which pilot is the pilot in command for that given mission. Usually, the more senior & experienced aircraft commander will be flagged as the PIC, but not always. Sometimes new aircraft commanders will fly as PIC with more senior AC’s to get used to being the man (or woman) in charge. For some check flights, the pilot evaluating the check ride is required to be the PIC. So if you’re giving the CO his annual safe-for-flight check ride, you will be the PIC and not your commanding officer.
There are also times when the PIC is not a formally designated aircraft commander, but is nonetheless the pilot in command. Some examples of this are when student pilots do their solos and, though it is rare, when two 2P’s are scheduled to fly a mission without an aircraft commander. (This is sometimes done just prior to one or both of the 2P’s getting their aircraft commander designation.)
The above is based on helicopter squadrons. Other naval aviation squadrons may do things differently.
Another quirk to military aviation is that formal officer rank plays no part in who is in command of an aircraft. An Ensign (lowest ranking Naval Officer) could be an aircraft commander with a Commander (a fairly senior officer) as his copilot.
Though I can’t vouch that it’s accurate, a commonly repeated story is that the Soviet era Warsaw Pact pilots did not wear rank insignia on their flights suits to emphasize that military rank does not play a role in flight crew interractions.
Creeeeepy. Website about the crash and the ghost stories: http://www.geocities.com/donuts13/
As you have seen from the previous replies, this differs in different areas of aviation. In the US airline industry it is almost strictly a question of seniority. You get your seniority number when you are hired; as people more senior to you retire and people less senior to you are hired, you move up the seniority list. You can bid for a captain’s seat anytime, but you only get awarded it when your seniority will allow it.
You also have relative seniority in your “bid status” - your seat and aircraft. Two people with similar overall seniority numbers could be on two different aircraft in two different seats: for example, one person may choose to be a senior widebody FO, while the other chooses to be a junior narrowbody captain.
The result is that in 95% of cases (at least at my airline), the Captain is more senior than the FO. There are a few cases of people just really liking the aircraft or schedule that they can hold, and stay in the FO seat (or bid back to it after being a captain) when they could be a captain on the same aircraft (but would be relatively junior).
In daily airline operations the Captain and FO alternate flying duties, but do not alternate who is Pilot in Command.
As to the earlier question about hands on the throttles…
When you see both pilots with their hands on the throttles, the airplane most likely does not have autothrottles. What happens is the pilot flying pushes the power up and gets it close to where it needs to be. The pilot not flying then “fine-tunes” the throttles to get the precise takeoff thrust setting. The pilot flying is still responsible for the aircraft, and so still keeps his hands on the throttles. If the pilot flying needs to abort the takeoff, he can yank the throttles back to idle even if the pilot not-flying is still adjusting them.
Depending on the aircraft, it may be necessary to “guard” the throttles from behind like you have noticed. Again, this is primarily on older aircraft without autothrottles. In the trusty C-141 the throttles would have a tendency to wander back on takeoff, so most people would have the PNF guard them during takeoff.
This can be dangerous on certain jets that have thrust reversers. Most of them have a safety device that yanks the throttle back to idle if a reverser deploys. If your hands are behind the throttle when this happens, you could end up with broken fingers. (Or worse…one guy I know lost the last digit of his ring finger after a throttle came back on him…the finger broke, got infected and had to be…ahem…removed. Ack.)
So it varies by airplane…and on some of the newer Airbus models, the throttles hardly move at all! You put them into the Takeoff position and the computer sets the engine thrust. On climbout you select climb power and the engines reduce thrust…but the throttles never move. At level off you set your cruise speed and the engines change thrust to maintain it, but again the throttles themselves never move.
Among airliners you can actually obtain an answer to that question, based up on cockpit voice and flight data recorders. However, a high percentage of CFIT occurs in small private planes that do not have black boxes and thus the answer is less certain in some cases. If there is only one person in the plane and CFIT occurs clearly you do not have an “I thought Bill was flying it” (ITBWFI) situation (you may still have had a distracted pilot). When there are two pilots up front, though, it is a possibility. A determination would have be made based upon evidence at hand, which, come to think of it, might include hands - the pilot whose hands are on the controls frequently suffers distinctive bone fractures upon impact. If no one has those characteristic fractures then yes, that could be an indication of ITBWFI
Supposedly, two instructors in the same plane are considered to be at higher risk for ITBWFI than, say, two people accustomed to solo. That being because the instructors have a habit formed of letting the other guy fly. In primary training, the other guy isn’t fully trained and might relinquish control without properly notifying the instructor, which can also lead to ITBWFI but, fortunatley, the early training environment is such that a few minutes of this sort of thing is seldom hurtful, much less fatal (though accidents can happen…)