Oh, my! * A&E! * You say she has her own * website? * That settles it! In the face of such overwhelming, unbiased, documented evidence from sources of such fine esteem and peer respect, I’ll have to gracefully bow out of this argument. After all, there may be a show on UFO abductions I might be missing, 'cause, God knows, everything on TV is the 100% unquestioned truth.
Unfortunately, for people like lekatt anyway, A&E documentaries and “NDE” websites are the equivalent of peer reviewed journals.
Following his posting record on this board is to know a world where critical thought doesn’t exist except as a ploy to hide “the truth.”
Welcome to the board, yes, people are supposed to respect opposing views, but not here much.
Don’t leave because of them, we badly need people like you here. Don’t let them run you off with their insulting attitudes.
State your opinions and stand your ground.
Love
Leroy
To whom it is concern:
Skeptics and atheists have zero proof of their positions. Most are based on the theory of evolution, which is, after all, just a theory, not truth, not fact, not proven. And the belief that God doesn’t exist can not be proven either. So your basic positions are not necessarily false, but not truth. For you to insult others, postering as the most intelligent of the species is only to show ignorance not fight it. I suggest their is a great amount to learn on this board for those willing to learn it.
Love
Leroy
You’re right, LeKatt. It’s possible. And monkeys might fly outta my butt, too. Anything’s possible.
If you could have but the slightest glimmer of how you undermine your own arguments by your own statements lekatt…
The “it’s all just a theory” bit is a very tired, very old rhetorical trick that has nothing to do with how useful knowledge is disseminated. You are naively suggesting an equivalence that does not exist based on a misapprehension of how terms like “theory,” “fact,” and “proof” are used in the context of science. As obvious as it is that you rejected scientific methods when they did not mix with your hallucinations, I am not sure that me pointing this out will help at all. After all, all you need to do is make a supposed link between athiesm, skepticism and evolution and suddenly you have made a “valid point.” Suffice to say that you haven’t the slightest clue what you are talking about and are in no position to criticize science, skeptics or atheists.
You do a fine job of making yourself out to be a martyr for your cause on this board lekatt, but the simple truth is that you haven’t had a leg to stand on from the very beginning. Your repsonse has been to muddy the waters, making claims that “all points of view are valid” or “anything is possible.” Then make grandiose statements about how we “have much to learn.” Sure we are all still learning. Sure anything is possible lekatt, but that does not mean that there aren’t kooks out there who believe things that have no basis in reality. Is that you? How do we know? Should we reject a disciplined approach to evaluating new knowledge and strange claims just because you say so? Because you had a hallucination that feels real to you? Is that why I should take your word for it that “cold reading doesn’t exist?” It isn’t just because you don’t like what it implies?
What it really comes down to is this.
If you can’t see the virtue of maintaining a skeptical approach to extraordinary claims… why should we accept anything you have to tell us?
::applause::
Great post Azael!
And if lekatt had bothered to read my previous post, he would have noticed that I am open to other ideas, even though I am a skeptic. Incidentally, I did investigate this NDE phenomenon before and the deal breaker is that even atheists have had those incidents: even in one religious documentary, the atheist remained a non-believer! As others have noticed, if you are a devout Christian you may encounter Jesus, or Mohamed, etc. The atheist just found a light that did not threaten any punishment at all.
To me it points to the possibility that if there is an afterlife it is a very personal thing, and memories shape it; I see no supernatural outside interference there, this is not the proof of the peculiar belief you have.
Man, I’m having a flashback to Feb 28 when I called Lekatt on his ignorance of evolution
Lekatt’s response was unclear, at least to me. So I asked
And his reply, verbatim Lekatt
So - if you disagree with Lekatt’s opinion of NDEs, you haven’t studied it enough; OTOH, complete ignorance is enough to convince Lekatt that “evolution is just a theory.”
And Lekatt – don’t bother accusing me of twisting your words – anyone can check them out.
from the Great Beyond thread; skip down a bit.
Yes, I like your post, just wish you would apply the principles to yourself as well as me.
Isn’t that just about the same thing as saying “I know you are but what am I?”
:smack:
I will clarify it for you tomorrow, give you a chance to do what you say you do. I am at work now, no time.
Talk about a blind spot.
What is the principle here: when Lekatt does it, it’s holding firmly to your convictions and when others do it, it’s pigheadedness?:smack::smack:
Ok, your first paragraph changes nothing in my original post. What I said was fact and still is fact.
Now, you went on to claim my NDE was an hallucination, this is the greatest insult one can give a near death experiencer.
You further state you believe in a disciplined approach to evaluating claims, so I am going to give you the opportunity to use this approach on your own claims. I will provide some links to material proving near death experiences are not hallucinations. These links will contain a controlled scientific approach to prove the validity of NDEs.
The first link is the Pam Reynolds surgery, it alone is enough to prove NDEs are not hallucinations. It is pretty hard to have a hallucination when you are stone-cold dead.
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html
http://www.rnw.nl/special/en/html/030223neardeath.html
Now it is your turn to prove your claim that NDEs are hallucinations, with a scientific disciplined approach. I am waiting for your proof.
http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/start.html
Here are a couple more links concerning life after death.
Love
Leroy
For the googolth time, you cannot prove that something is not supernatural. You can only offer an alternative explanation for a phenomenon.
I cannot disprove the tooth fairy. I can only offer an alternative explanation for how the money got under the pillow.
I cannot disprove the afterlife. I can only offer an alternative explanation for near death experiences.
(I also strongly suggest that others answer lekatt only in the Thread Beyond since almost every aspect of these debates has occurred in there somewhere. I am leaving this thread now since contributing to it makes me feel like I am having a Please Kill Me Now Experience.)
SentientMeat is funny!
That is NOT what I asked! My near death experience was called an hallucination, hallucinations are not supernatural, I am asking for proof that my NDE was a hallucination. If someone can insult me in this manner, and after the real proof I have offered, they can come up with proof themselves, that is a fair way of doing business. Now, where is the proof?
Hi: It’s me Uncle Fred, As you all know I am dead. All your other “Uncle Freds” are here with me also and here’s the poop on what happens after death. We found all those socks you lost over the years as we spend a lot of time here looking for things like that. I finally finished grade 10 and my first assignment for grade 11 is to read “war and peace”. I only have a billion years to finish it so I’m going to be pretty busy. Those lucky one’s who have already read it get to watch tv. It’s a little chilly here {which explains our fetish about socks} but we have lots to do, hobbies and such{ do you know that here when you throw a cat up into the air it always lands on it’s head} Oh, I guess you want to know what the meaning of life is? Well it’s…sorry it’s nap time. I will drop by when I finish this damn book.
Cute! But why fantasize when you can have the real McCoy.
Lekatt, have you ever heard of Occam’s Razor?