Yes, like grammar and punctuation.
Peace,
~mixie
Yes, it’s true I struggle with english, I am also old, walk with a limp, and really ugly. You can use that in your next post.
I think that this world is a place where we find out who we are, specifically we can let our egos rule and basically learn nothing but think we know a lot OR we can stay open and maybe learn at least a little. I have always “known” there are other realities beyond this one. Yes, these are my personal hallucinations but they make more sense to me than nonsensical idea that we can somehow grasp all of reality, smear it on a slide, and peer at it through a microscope. To me, that’s a huge ego trip. Fact is, for each of us, time will tell. We will die and either be somewhere, or not. Doesn’t matter much to me, to tell the truth, although I do think it is wise to at least minimally prepare for the possibility of some kind of continued existence.
Occam’s Razor: The simplest explanation tends to be the right one.
Examples: Those claiming to be psychics are unable to produce results that are better than the technique known as “cold reading”. The simplest explanation to this is that the psychics claims are not valid.
A more complex explanation to the evidence would be that the Skeptic Cold Readers are themselves psychics, and are denying their own psychic powers for some reason and calling it “cold reading” instead.
Oxygen deprivation to the brain causes hallucinations. The experience of an NDE is consistant with the hallucinations caused by that deprivation, such as seeing a tunnel. Hallucinations are the simplest explanation to your experience, lekatt. An elaborate afterlife scenerio is not the simplest explanation.
It is not for the skeptic to provide proof, but the claimant. Can you offer real proof that what you experienced was real other than your feelings to that effect?
Let’s say I claim my child was fathered by Bigfoot. You say it was not, that Bigfoot doesn’t exist. I can smile smugly and say, “Prove it!” but as I see it, the burden of proof would on me to have a DNA test done on the kid to show that his/her father is not a human, not on others to prove that Bigfoot does not exist. It is not for them to prove me a liar, but on me to prove that I am telling the truth.
No offense, but for all we know, you’ve made the whole thing up. Aside from your antecdote, what evidence do we have?
Let’s take the woman who supposedly had all of the blood drained from her brain, (and after an exhaustive search I have yet to find ANY procedure which does this.) She claims to have “heard” the doctors. But who’s to say she did not bribe a nurse to tell her what was said and done? What real evidence do we have to prove that she did not make the whole thing up in order to make herself famous and sell books? Stranger things have happened. I’m sure that I could go to the NDE board and post an experience and make up every single detail. Should you take this for fact? Why should you trust me?
You didn’t get the message. A Skeptic claimed that my NDE was an hallucination, that is an insult to me, now let them prove their claim, or shut their mouth. When you insult someone you better have a good reason for it, but skeptics don’t have any at all. No proof, evidence, no nothing. They are “fighting ignorance” whatever the hell that means when you have no proof of anything.
Well, ok, I got mad. Mainly because skeptics seem to think they can come up with any kind of slanderous insults against psychics and near death experiencers, and the burden of proof is on the psychics. If that is what they teach in school, then don’t listen to them. Everyone is responsible for their own words and actions. You can’t blame others for your inappropriate behaviour the rest of your life. At some point everyone needs to grow up and start treating people with respect. You have every right to disagree with psychics, but no right to curse them. Especially without proof.
Now, the Pam Reynolds surgery is the best documented NDE in existence, it is on tape. There were many doctors there. One wrote a book about it. She did not bribe anyone, how ridiculous.
If you don’t believe it fine, you have no proof to say it didn’t happen, so don’t. When skeptics start playing by the rules, people will listen, why would anyone take what you made up as real without proof, right. Well the surgery has a ton of proof.
Lekatt, I am a three headed space alien with eight octupus like tentacles from the plant “Gorgalak.” However, to human eyes and all known methods of testing, I appear like just to be another human.
I have made this claim, and people have laughed in my face. I can’t believe they’d say anything so hurtful. How can they say such things?
I hope you sympathize with my plight. Those foolish “skeptics” who doubt what I’m saying can’t prove I’m wrong! They have no proof of anything. It’s up to them to prove that I am not a three headed eight tentacled gorgalakian!
Love,
Blalron
Much like your claims that others have twisted your words, which you won’t back up by citing the messages. Gee, I’m so impressed by your integrity.
I think it’s insulting to claim that Harry Houdini’s wife received a message from him after he died when that’s not true.
**
No. You prove YOURS. You are the one with something to prove, here. You’re the one missing the message, it seems.
If I got insulted every time someone here challenged a theory of mine, I’d spend my life guzzling Malox and muttering in dark corners. This Board is filled with intelligent, learned, people who are * skeptics. * No theory goes unchallenged here. It’s nothing personal, and being overly-sensitive will only harm you, and your position. You make an assertion here, you better damn well have something to back it up, or you will get nothing but well-earned scorn. Have a kid if you want someone that will believe everything you say, but you won’t find unquestioning acceptance here.
Skepticism is what eventually led to the general acceptance that the world is not flat. Skepticism is healthy, intelligent, and natural. It is what protects us from accepting every crack-pot theory that comes our way. Praise whatever gods may be for skeptics! Skepticism is the search for truth: where none is found, beware.
Again, you made an assertion. The burden is on you, my friend, to provide proof. Not on those who are naturally skeptical of your claims. Look at it this way: we seek elucidation. Provide it. In your words, prove your claim, or shut your mouth.
I admit that, in the context of lekatt’s beliefs, my dismissal of his NDE experiences as hallucinations may have been insulting. For that, I would like to apologise.
I will reiterate however, that in the context of my own beliefs, such experiences are little more than hallucinations.
Two reasons:
1.) NDE experiences can be induced.
2.) As such, I believe that a more appropriate description of NDE experiences must lie in an analysis of the neural conditions which give rise to them. My own observations and studies have led me to believe that the physiology of the brain is the major determinant of states of consciousness. This is a view which is corraborated by modern neuro-science and does not invoke unnecessary explanations. Explanations based on the effects of a neuro-chemistry near death are going to carry far more weight with me.
To put it simply, I don’t believe that you have start invoking God, souls, an afterlife or anything like that to explain NDEs. It seems far more likely that your brain has more to do with these experiences than some touchy-feely interpretation of the visions themselves. That doesn’t make them any less fascinating - hallucination or not, it sounds like some freaky stuff starts happening when a brain nears death.
And you know that I can’t prove anything about your personal experience lekatt. I suspect that is exactly why you are asking me to do it ;). But you must also realize that that isn’t how things work anyway.
I decided to do a little more research into the Pam Reynold’s case. The prcedure somewhat inaccurately described previously is called “hypothermic cardiac arrest.” The patient’s body is cooled, and the heartbeat slows dramatically. As this site puts it:
(Bolding mine)
So, it appears that Ms. Reynolds was not as “dead” as it was implied. I have found in my research that true brain death is considered irreversible by every major medical association.
Let’s examine one case of a supposed NDE from a skeptical viewpoint. It supports what I think could have happened in the Pam Reynolds case.
We’ve been over this before, first here, and more recently here. In all of those pages, in both of those threads, you have yet to even offer proof that the doctor in question has ever remotely acknowledged anything about the Pam Reynolds case, other than to acknowledge that he performed the surgery. No cites to his “amazement” to be found. You also eventually leave the threads once those who show an interest in NDEs start to realize that you don’t have any evidence whatsoever to backup your claims, other than anecdotal. If you really want to revisit this, both threads are waiting for you, including one in which I challenged you to provide the evidence about the surgeon in question, which you never responded to.
30 years from now, you’ll probably still be posting that the doctor was “amazed” at Pam’s account of the surgery. Hopefully, there is life after death, so that I’ll still be here to once again ask for a cite.