My father-in-law is in his last days, according to all the leaflets and articles I’ve read about dying. He was diagnosed with cancer roughly 10 months ago. He hasn’t complained of pain, but he’s stopped almost all eating and drinking, is at times uncommunicative, is physically rigid, confused, and hallucinating at times. I expect to see erratic breathing patterns and the like any time.
I don’t believe there is a soul, but my in-laws do, and if he says anything about it, I’d like to have a frame of reference to work with.
If the body has a soul, what is the process for the soul leaving the body and going to heaven? Does an agent of god remove the soul and escort it to heaven? Does the soul float away from the body and find its way to heaven? Is judgement already performed or do you face that when you get “there”? Will he join his dead children or his parents? Will it be like Earth?
Um… wow. This depends largely upon your point of view, and your religious beliefs, since there’s no empirical evidence whatsoever for an afterlife.
The main thing I have learned about it is that I am disinclined to believe someone who’s quite sure he knows what happens after you die.
I also believe it to be a pretty subjective experience, although quite a few people have described a sort of bodiless floating sensation, and a “light” that one drifts towards. Some people have also described seeing the spirits of other dead people. Admittedly, everyone who’s reported this did not actually DIE, so their testimony may be a bit suspect.
The other thing I believe is that it IS a matter of belief. The only empirical evidence I have is that of six billion people, nearly all of them (statistically speaking) are pretty sure something happens after you die.
That seems to me to be pretty strong metaphysical evidence that SOMETHING does, even if it has nothing to do with robes and harps and so forth…
Personally I suspect that nothing happens. Literally. It’s practically impossible to wrap one’s mind around the concept, but I think death is simply and end of conscious existence.
I think that the reason so many people believe in life after death is because it is pretty much impossible to imagine nonexistence. As long as we are able to think we can’t imagine our thoughts simply stopping. The thing is, just because we can’t imagine it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
Of course, that’s just my opinion. I have no personal experience to base it on, but, before the Near Death Experience crowd shows up (you know who you are) let me ask a question. In those “near-death” experiences, the people are always brought around again, before the brain has been irrepairably damaged. I’m pretty sure that once the brain cells are all dead there’s no coming back. So, since they haven’t really died, how do they know that what they’ve experienced aren’t simply dream/hallucinations due to the unusual circumstances? Nobody has come back from complete death, with absolutely no brain activity for a period of time long enough for the brain to actually die, so there’s really no frame of reference to compare to “NDE’s.”
Photopat, I’m with you. I believe the person just ceases to be. I don’t think I could actually play along with him, but maybe if I had some understanding of what a very non-strict christian is anticipating, I could offer comfort or encouragement for him to let go? Although I’m not afraid of dying, I’m not very good at dealing with it either.
Well, look at it this way. Regardless of what any of us believe, the simple fact is we don’t know what will happen. If others believe in life after death, that’s fine. Believe what you want and just let it go. At a time like this it really doesn’t matter, right?
“while speaking learned words, you are mourning for that which is not worthy of grief. those who are wise, lament neither for the living, nor for the dead”
“never was there a time when i did not exist, nor you, nor anyone else. nor in the future shall any of us cease to be”
I don’t think anyone is good at dealing with death. Your comfort to him would not need to be religious. You need to tell him it’s okay for him to go now, that he needs to rest and promise him that you love his daughter(son?) very much and you will always take care of them. Everyone that he might be concerned about needs tell him it’s okay to go. Love, regret and worry can make a person hang on longer than they should. The question of life after death will solve itself very soon, at least for him.
I’m sorry to hear that your father-in-law is in the final stages of cancer. Depending on the kind of cancer he has, his body shutting down may differ. I would guess from your descriptions of being rigid, confused and hallucinating, that he is in great distress, and being given morphine.
A friend of my family died this morning. He, like my dad and my father-in-law, chose to slip away as soon as they were left alone for just a few moments. I was, however, with our little grandson. He was only 19 months old and had battled against brain cancer for 12 months and 10 days of his life. Yesterday was the third anniversary of his crossing over. I witnessed a peacefulness wash over him from head to toe and without moving a muscle on his face, he beamed with a rapturous joy. Though his eyes were closed, he appeared to be focused up above him. Ten minutes later, he took his last breath. He left in total joy. We kept him with us for three hours afterwards and I noticed that the energy of his spirit very slowly started to fade from his body. When I saw his body later at the mortuary, it was just an empty shell of his body. All of the energy of his spirit was gone from it. (I’m not referring to the color or tone when I speak of the energy.)
That’s all I can provide in what I witnessed, except to say that I and others in the room with him, believe with all our hearts that it was Jesus that Dawson saw.
In the last day(s) with your father-in-law, tell him only that you love him and that you will miss him; listen and observe if he shares with you.
Popular belief does not equal empirical evidence. I have no idea what “metaphysical evidence” is but I’m pretty sure it has nothing to do with actual evidence.
The OP is asking a question which has no factual answer and cannot be debated rationally. Kalhoun, I think you should just ask your FIL what he thinks about the soul and the mechanics of its departure, then humor whatever he says. If he says he expects to see you in Heaven, tell you hope he’s right. The goal should simply be as comforting and supportive as possible in his last days. What comes after that doesn’t really matter. Your responsibility is to the living.
Most would agree that person consists of a physical body, a life force, and a conscious spirit or intellect whih dwells in said body.
Death occurs when the life force ceases and/or fails to annimate the body. The body then without artificial intervention returns to the dust of the earth of which it is composed.
The question of the spirit or intellect has no place to continue to exist and communicate on the earthly plane of existence, leaving the question of where does it go, if anywhere.
The Greeks and Romans believed in an after life in Paradise which was partitioned into a place of peace and contentment and one of pain and sorrow with no communication between the two.
Jesus told the story of the rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16:19-31 and Jesus promised the repentant theif That they would be in Paradise following their death. Luke 23:42-43.
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)
Where you want to take it with respect to the last two items above will depend on your belief system.
My grandmother died last week. Toward the end, she was talking to my grandfather, who died nearly twenty years ago. A friend of mine does hospice work, and she says that it is quite common for people to talk to the dead, and report seeing and hearing the dead close to thier own death. She believes that there is some kind of crossing over, and you are assisted by those whom you have loved and who have already passed on.
I believe there is a better place that you go to, and that you are there with those you love. I find this thought comforting, and since I have no way of finding out the truth, this is what I will believe. My grandmothers’ suffering has ended, but my believing her to be happy eases my own pain.
Uh… cite? Millions, if not billions, think that once you’re dead, that’s it. And in any case, Diogenes is right, that’s not evidence. The website above might be the worst attempt at proving anything that I’ve ever seen.
To the topic at hand: If you believe in souls and such, what you think happens to them varies very far and wide. So I think you’d really have to ask the people involved if you’re curious about what they think.
Some scientists speculate that the brain releases massive amounts of dopamine, and other pleasure-causing chemicals at the time of death. (As to why the brain may do this, they are not sure.) This could account for some of the hallucinations reported by NDE survivors.
Just to be clear, I’m not asserting that an afterlife doesn’t exist (though I personally have no belief in it), just that no proof for it exists. I would not ridicule anyone for simply believing in a soul or an afterlife but when they start trying to prove it (and with such comically bad evidence as that Zammit site) then I’m going to have to engage in some mockery.
Maybe someone knows more about this, but I once saw a documentary about a scientist who found that he could generate NDE type experiences by electronically stimulating certain parts of the brain. He was able to generate some other experiences usually identified as “religious” such as visionary experiences of Jesus and IIRC, he was even able to cause a mental state akin to that of samadhi (or Buddhist Nirvana).
Does anyone know more about this guy? I don’t remember is name but he’s done some fascinating work.
Well, there are real logical problems with the notion of disembodied consciousness in any form. Personal identity may be tied inextricably to the matter in which our consciousness is embodied, as in the various physical mechanisms that store our memory and behavioural patterns. Consciousness itself may be a mere bi-product of the attempt of your body to sustain itself, consciousness being the way it organizes information and responds to complex stimuli.
I assume this all just breaks down upon death, the processes that create consciousness disappear. Experientially, you probably just start to lose any coherence in your memories, your perceptions, and your thoughts until all such processes just cease to exist and “you” along with them. Some do say there’s a release of chemicals to pacify you about your impending doom, and with ability to reason pretty frail at that point it might work in fooling you.
(However, I personally do not trust that completely, and do not want to regain brief moments of consciousness as I decay and am eaten by bugs, so I plan to be frozen and dropped off in Antarctica somewhere…since I can’t take my money with me when I die, I want to make sure it all gets spent on this elaborate plan, so that no part of my productive life was wasted.)
For there to be anything at all after death that could reasonably be said to constitute a continuation of your personal identity, the soul or essence would need to contain pretty much all of that information, and then imprint it upon whatever new “body” you get, spiritual or otherwise. Otherwise the soul could go to a spiritual plane, or be reincarnated, but not really be you in any relevant way.
If only we all could be amongst the first eaten when the Elder Gods come again…or something like that.