I wear loafers and I don’t wear a belt.
Monstro, I respect you but you may never have encountered this classic situation before. No one said that male workplaces are a utopia. In fact, I said that mixed sex workplaces are ideal and meant it. My work experience is like a who’s who of companies and this exact scenario comes up so often it is almost comical.
The OP’s description of iciness from a female coworker is a primary symptom and a clue about what is going on. I have had to deal with this same thing so many times myself with both subordinates and myself that it would be pathetic if I hadn’t gotten used to it. As a matter of fact, I dealt with it twice this week and I think that one person in another office set a record for the most unprofessional e-mail sent to the most people trying to nail me. My strategy, if you can call it that because I have it so far ingrained into me now, was to crack up at her once-again antics and then collude with my boss plus my bosses boss to come up with ways to destroy her. My mother who is very successful warned me about this when I was younger and I only learned all too painfully much later what she was talking about. I have heard hard-core feminists, including ones on this board, acknowledge the issue although they tend to attribute it to some kind of insecurity caused by oppression or some such thing.
If the OP wants to know the correct way to deal with it, the answer is clear. Don’t go to your boss. I am a boss with a group of professionals under me and I don’t want to deal with that type of thing and neither do any of the rest. If you want to imagine your situation as some type of game, you need to earn some experience points while keeping your nose clean. A fool-proof strategy is to become good at what you are supposed to do and ignore any antics that someone may direct at you. Your boss already knows the other two. Worry about yourself and not them and things will take care of themselves.
With regard to co-worker #2, why can’t you say that you’re not sufficiently experienced to be able to take on the extra work? Or simply leave the work on her desk - you’ve got your own work to do, after all.
I have worked in all-female environments, all-male environments, and mixed sex environments. All of them have been full of some kind of drama (the all-male workplace takes the cake though). So I don’t think I’m so naive as to not being able to provide some insightful here.
I’m trying not to be purposefully contrary, but I have felt iciness from both females and males. I think people make the mistake of assuming that women are naturally supposed to be friendly, bubbly, and cheerful. So a woman who’s not smiley-faced, jokey, or chitty-chat is automatically pegged as “icy” or “bitchy”. While the quiet, stand-offish guy down the hall is just called, well, quiet and stand-offish.
I’ve worked with women who don’t speak to you when they enter the office, who you sense are inwardly rolling their eyes every time you open your mouth, who you know talk shit about you whenever your back is turned. They are bitches.
I’ve worked with guys who don’t look at you when they talk to you and ignore you at meetings, interrupt you when you’re speaking to someone else, and routinely “correct” you when what you’re saying is 100% accurate. They are dicks.
I’ve worked with both guys and women who spread vicious gossip and tell lies.
Dicks and bitches are equally rude and hostile and suck. Perhaps meanness manifests itself in different ways based on gender (bitchy women are skilled in ignoring you and being condescending in their tone; dickish men tend to be more insulting and direct with their arrogance), but one gender does not hold a monopoly on being mean and not-getting-alongness.
Where I think the genders differ is how we deal with the drama. I’ve never seen a Dope thread posted by a guy ranting about how his male coworker hates him, but there are plenty from women Dopers. A guy will rant about another guy being a dick in general, but a woman will portray her enemy as someone who has a personal vendetta against her and only her (and I’m just as guilty of this as anyone, so I know of what I speak). Why is that? I think many women have their egos tied into pleasing others and being popular, and when this doesn’t happen they don’t know what to do. Women need to stop caring about making friends with everyone. If someone acts like they hate you, and you know you haven’t done anything to them, then treat them like the crazy bitch they are and MOVE ON. Unless they’re actively sabotaging you or harrassing you, I can’t see why changing their behavior should be a priority. Especially if everyone else in the workplace is cool (which, from the OP’s description, it seems to be).
Number 1 is a workplace jerk. Every workplace has them. They are the person that everyone talks about in the break room. They are the person no one really wants to invite to lunch, and who people don’t really pal around with outside of work. The boss probably hates her too. Besides keeping away from her and praying that she quits before you do, there ain’t much you can do.
Number 2 is a workplace boob. Every workplace has them. They are the person who makes you cringe when they ask a question at staff meetings. They are the person who always screws up telephone messages and can’t ever seem to type up an error-free purchase order. If she’s a nice person, that means you can broach the topic of her carelessness without too much drama. You’ll have to be tactful, of course.
(Going back to the gender thing, I think you need to examine your own biases, Dr McChoakumchild. If Number 2 were a guy, would you think to mention the fact that he has two little kids? Is she incompetent because of them, or because she’s just an incompetent boob? I think before blaming the women in your workplace for being “stereotypical”, you need to evaluate how your own perceptions are feeding into the stereotypes.)
What does this mean? I thought a feminist was one who believed men and women were inherently equal (socially, politically, etc.). Not important or germane to this discussion, I’m just curious. I often hear “feminist” used as if it were a bad thing to be, and I’ve never been able to figure out quite why. (I’m not female, so I’m a non-feminine feminist. Crazy language.)
When you’re communicating with people solely via the written word, like we are, I feel that some loaded words can have vastly different meanings. Like “feminist.”
Let’s put it this way. I think women and men should have equal pay, equal opportunities, biology shouldn’t be used as a point of discrimination. I even believe in paid maternity leave. I think the next Australian PM should be female (God knows she can’t do any worse than the available male candidates).
Some would identify the above as meaning I’m feminist. I’m happy to be pidgeonholed as such.
But I also think that gender is fundamental to a person’s personality, and additionally, just because someone is female doesn’t mean that they are a better person. That is why I ID’d the gender.
I understand what you’re saying, but I don’t think I ever used the word “stereotypical.” I think Two is a professional, highly respected woman, but her having two little kids mean she works two days per week, 9 to 5, and that’s it. Her working 16 hours a week means that inevitably I “inherit” the bits of her work that she wasn’t able to cover in time. If she was a guy and the primary carer, the same thing would happen.
I suppose if she didn’t have kids but was doing a PhD, for instance, the same thing would happen. Regardless, it still creates a problem for me and I don’t really know how to handle it without making her dislike me.
I agree with Monstro. I’ve been in the workforce for over twenty years and I’ve never seen anything to make me think that women get along with each other less well than men get along with each other.
And I am one of those scary feminists who wants women and men to be equal under the law. Sorry if I startled anybody.
So do you have any suggestions about my individual situation?
Female, 44, been in offices for 25 of those years. Unfortunately, the best advice is to grow a nice, thick skin and wait for the next job situation to come along, or a change in personnel at your current one. Like monstro , I have found it to be less related to the gender mix and more related to the boss him/herself. Attitudes seem to trickle down. It’s worse in a small office if the boss doesn’t hire people to make a good team and won’t address obvious personnel problems. In that small a place, he can’t not know about the problems, so bringing them to his attention is probably useless. (In one case, I had a boss who thrived on the drama and encouraged it. That office was a revolving door.)
It’s always something in the office shark tank. The jobs I recall being the best or worst had little to do with the work itself or industry, and everything to do with the people. Don’t assume, when looking for another job down the line, that this is typical of female-heavy environments. I just came from one with all the office staff female and a male boss, and we adored each other. The boss was very careful to make sure the personalities and work ethics of his staff were all in line when hiring us. I would never have left the job if it weren’t for relocation.
I’m not there with you at work, so I can’t really call it, but are you sure Number 1’s attitude is as intentional as you think? Is it possible she just isn’t very outgoing, or just isn’t good at interaction? Again, you’re in a position to see what she does, and I’m not, but I know that sometimes people see slights where there just is shyness, or a more introverted style. Is there any way you could bring this up with her, maybe in terms of something specific she says or does?
By way of example, several years ago, when I was working in a department store, my new co-worker asked me where something was kept. I answered her, she found it, and all was well, I thought. But a little bit later she came to me and said, “Would you rather I didn’t ask? You sounded like you were mad.” Well, no, I wasn’t mad that she asked, I was a bit frustrated that I had a hard time remembering where that particular thing was stored, and that came out in my reply to her. I’m glad she brought it up, because it could have been a huge thing between us eventually, if it hadn’t been straightened out. She might have continued to see things I did or said in light of that.
As I said, I don’t see what you see, so you know what I don’t, but is it worth considering? If not, well, then I’m sorry. I hope you can find a way to make things better.
Same here, I’m glad I moved over to a different office in the university. Last office had a heck of a cow-orker. Someone who (as mentioned in the coffee club thread) still hasn’t paid up for eleven months of coffee/tea money and when asked would loudly lie about how little tea and biscuits she shovelled down her throat. Someone who has been in late consistently for the past two months, using roadworks as a BS excuse (despite being late in previous months) and then claiming I was in late every time I took the bus, if I hadn’t changed office I was going to keep a record of her and my times to take to the boss. Someone who boasted of the massive amounts of work she did, but only because she hoarded what little work came our way to herself. Someone who clip clopped down the hallway to announce every “wrong” thing we did to the bosses, whom she considered herself to be completely on a par with, despite hearing the contrary from at least one of them behind her back. Someone who was horribly, backwardly racist (commenting on “chocolate halfcast” babies) yet claimed to love our international students…
I’m so glad I got out of that place. Ironically its to cow-orkers old office. She claimed to get on very well with some people in here and very badly with others, so I’m not mentioning her name if I can.
I’m not understanding at all. Working with one bad female coworker is enough to taint working with women in general? 
I have worked with numerous dicks through my fourteen years of work experience. In fact, at every job I’ve held (and I’ve had many), there was at least one male coworker that I could not stand. At my current job alone, I’ve encountered slackers, incompetents, jerkoffs, and arrogant snobs…folks who were inevitably fired for not being teamplayers. And guess what? All of them had penises!
But I would never think to generalize my findings to the scale of an entire gender. That would be ridiculous.
(Must be nice to be a screw-up and not have it blamed on either your race or gender. I really wish I could enjoy this benefit, if even just for a second).
I’ve had bad experiences with all gender offices of both types. The all mens office had an upper floor that I didn’t like to venture into, very much a “lads magazine” type culture, complete with horrendous abuse and nose pickings on the toilet doors :rolleyes:
This is interesting. I was sexually harassed at every job I held for the first ten years I was in the work force, but in this thread nobody even mentions sexual harassment as something that bothers them at work.
Dr McChoakumchild, I’m afraid I don’t have any specific advice. I was intending to read the thread and mind my own business but then it turned into a misogyny fest and I wanted to step in and back up Monstro.
As for your situation, all I have is the same general advice you’ve already gotten. Your problems with coworker number one sound like something that will go away by themselves, and your problems with coworker number two sound like something you can’t do much about. And as everyone has said, usually the person who is making your life miserable ends up transfering to another office before you do, anyway.
I’m with monstro on this, too. I’ve seen really lousy behavior–backstabbing, harassment, and general jerkery–from both men and women. The one labmate who I couldn’t stand, and who made my life really miserable for a while, was a guy.
My guess is that insecurity, neediness, neuroses, and general nutsness are all equal-opportunity in employees.
My advice on dealing with Number 1 is to call her on her bad attitude towards you. Nobody has a right to treat you badly at work, and I am somewhat disappointed at all the advice here telling you to just suck it up because there will always be someone who will treat you badly. You always have a right to ask for decent treatment and stand up for yourself. Chances are the offending party won’t change, and you will have to just put up with it or quit, but chances are also good that a bully will back down when you tell them you won’t accept their bad behaviour.
For example, when #1 says something to you that is rude or hurtful, but she says it in a sneaky way so it’s hard to tell someone else why it was rude, just say to her, “I don’t appreciate being talked to like that.” When you think someone is being rude to you, chances are they are - she knows what she’s doing. She just doesn’t expect you to draw a line in the sand for her.
Will you get fired for standing up for yourself? Probably not, if you do it assertively and just stop #1 from stepping on your toes, and if you do get fired for not allowing yourself to be treated badly, you’re well out of there.
As for #2, that sounds like something that will work itself out as you get more experienced and more able to negotiate her leftover work with her better. You are doing your own work first and her left-overs second, right?
I’ve worked in nursing for 20 years and see this all the time. Sure, there are some dicks and jerks, be they male nurses or doctors, but there is a different brand of nastiness inherent in working in a primarily female place of employment. Class, education, social standing, race, and position at the workplace all play a part, but generally, women are more passive/aggressive when it comes to conflict resolution or even simple confrontation. I feel fairly confident that Icewoman is indeed threatened by you in some way. It’s her problem, but sadly, it’s yours now, too.
That’s been my experience. Yes, men have their own nastiness, and it is not more ok than women’s–but I’ll not deny that there is much nastiness when it comes to working with women, period.
To help you, I would confront this Icewoman in a mature manner. Next time she does the freeze out or whatever, say in a mild tone, “is there a problem? You seem upset with me in some way. I’d like to clear that up.” If she runs true to form-she’ll back down and away. If she’s toxic, then that might be trouble.
I don’t see how discussing issues like this is in anyway anti-feminist or anti-woman or even pro-men(?).
Is anyone here saying that women shouldn’t be equal to men under the law? There’s nothing scarey about that-just seems obvious to me! 
There’s nothing anti-woman about discussing this. The misogyny comes into play when people jump in with, “Women just can’t get along,” and “women can’t work together.” That’s about as helpful and accurate as, “Asians can’t drive” or “white men can’t jump.”
The issue of what a feminist is and what it means to be a feminist was brought up in this thread already, but it looks like it petered out.
Sure equality under the law seems obvious to you, but in the U.S. we have never ratified the 80-year old Equal Rights Amendment that would guarantee it.