Given that “Axis of Evil” was the dumbest, most counter-productive turn of phase form an idiot who is second to none in idiot phases, the fact remains that we are facing a world of perpetual warfare where the enemy is not a state, but loose confederations of like-minded psychopaths, several of whom have enough money to make the Kim dynasty’s dreams of launching a serious attack on the US a reality.
For those who like irony - that money comes from the US’s purchases of oil. Want nuke power after all? Guess which Korea has uranium AND plutonium deposits?
The simple fact is we cannot afford to have Uncle Kim’s Discount Nukes and Missiles selling to all takers. Had Osama Bin Laddin had the opportunity, he wouldn’t have used half-trained pilots in 757/767 - the truck in the basement from 20 years earlier would have have had a nuke in it.
The fact that nukes can be miniaturized means we have serious interest in stopping sworn enemies from lasting long enough to work out the details.
North Korea (probably) won’t use then against us, the jihadists will.
Hell, an American teenager is on trial for (among other things) punching in a sequence of numbers on a cell phone which he believed would cause 1000’s of American deaths by a truck bomb near the lighting of a Community Christian Tree.*
don’t ask me to be too concerned by civilian deaths in drone strikes, When the US kills civilians, it is a by-product of how we fight; killing civilians is HOW jihadists fight.
You don’t like having drones buzzing around? Drive the jihadists out of your town.
Hmmm. The border between China and North Korea is already quite porous. There are already a lot of North Koreans in eastern China. The culture is very similar. Lots of goods cross that border. Open that up just a bit more.
China does not want 40 million refuges. Nor does it want a country that is sympathetic to western ideals on their border.
Don’t discredit Kim or his forefathers. They are Gods to the NK people. We know different of course but no good would come from rubbing their noses in it. Everyone has a certain amount of pride.
But do show how most of the rest of the civilized world lives. How to do that, I’m not really sure.
Baby steps.
I must say, that after reading about the common mans/woman/child’s strife in NK, I appreciate every meal I cook much more.
No, the cultures aren’t similar. I guess you can claim North Korea is more similar to China than the US, but that’s still not a useful comparison. SK has a much higher standard of living than that section of China and vast differences in many other respects yet is more culturally similar to NK refugees than any section of China. It borders on racist to claim that level of similarity.
And the differences aren’t just the historic cultural differences. They’ve got electricity and food just over the border in China. While the Chinese are under some censorship on their news, the official government stance isn’t absolute.
It’s only the most facile consideration of the area that leads to these kinds of conclusions.
I was trying to compare the similarities to south east China as being much more similar to NK than northern South Korea. I think that people from NK could find a better life there than Seoul. And we have to face facts. The majority of North Korean people are uneducated. And have not been exposed to modern technology.
We are talking about subsidence farmers that have been brain washed for 100 years. They would be lost in a city like Seoul.
I’m sure that the North Koreans could farm and trade if they where allowed to. It happened in the late 1990’s when ‘capitalist’ markets opened up and Kim shut them down.
Please don’t call me racist. You can call me an economist if you want to.
I think that a slow opening of the border to China, and South Korea is the only solution.
Please, before trying to say “all those people are alike - simple-minded fools” again, try to find pics of Pyongyang - they really do have paved streets, with streetlights, traffic cops, and CARS!
The stores also have jewelry and fresh fruits (well beyond the financial reach of the average peasant, but there).
Don’t be so condescending as to think the simple ape-like creatures are incapable of understanding such things.
The young rich sing karaoke and feed slot machines.
And no, there is little empathy, let alone genetic overlap between NE China and Korea.
There is a small oil pipeline (which the Chinese shut down following the first of NK’s nuke tests (had W not been such an ass, we would not have to spend half of the Security Council debate period apologizing to China for W’s screw-ups - they WERE on board at first).
Other trade along the border is NK officials dragging suitcases of US dollars to pay for exotica and peasants scrounging what they can to trade for Chinese food.
None of which I said. Please retract this and don’t put words in my mouth.
Those that do make it to South Korea are given a month long training program to help them fit into the society. A doctor from Pyongyang had to go through this education. And then, was not able to practice medicine because her training was so poor.
Pyongyang is the jewel of NK. Here is what wiki says about cars in Pyongyang (since you brought it up)
The doctor that I mentioned got her first ride in a car when she escaped to China.
You used the word “cultural” and claimed NE China was culturally similar to NK.
No, the two are NOT the same culturally. Not even close.
You bring up the month long assimilation when NK refugees hit Seoul. Do you know what’s involved in that? It’s to train them to get used to the idea of having money. And spending it. How to shop. How to use mass transit. How basic things like dependable electricity and running water change daily life.
It has little to do with culture. Except the last 60 years, there are centuries of shared history, language, holidays, beliefs, etc between SK and NK.
China, on the other hand, has many of those same differences but also massive differences in culture and history (a few THOUSAND years, in fact) on top. Cultural assimilation with China would require years and would never be fully successful, just as it’s never entirely successful for Koreans coming to the US or Americans going to the UK.
And yes, it smacks of “they all look the same” racism to claim otherwise.
I’m sorry you think that about me. You are wrong in that respect.
The six people that I read about where welcomed into Chinese homes and where givin refuge. And got jobs before moving on to South Korea. Many of the Eastern Chinese also speak Korean.
The only way out of NK is through the border to the north (China) or by sea. The DMZ is a no go. The US and Mexico share many similarities and differences. Yet we all get along quite well.
It was the hot line they cut, so a bit more serious. They have also declared the armistice invalid (for, I believe the 3rd time in history). Here’s the article Sailboat was talking about on CNN.
No idea how serious this all is. They have pulled antics like this before after all and nothing has ever come of it. I have a cousin who is in the army and stationed in Korea at one of the bases that service the DMZ though so it’s been on my mind a bit more than usual lately. Hopefully like all the other times this will just blow over as Kimmy gets tried of the bluff and goes back to hookers and blow, or whatever this one does for kicks.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if the Chinese along the NK border share a lot of cultural similarities with the North Koreans. That part of China used to be part of Korea, and I think there are still communities there that speak some form of Korean.
I would be really surprised if North Korean defectors were allowed to join the Korean army at all. The idea that being friendly with NK = traitor to your country still exists in the south. Producing material that seems to praise the NK in any shape or form can get you arrested, even in these enlightened times.
That’s different from claiming “cultural similarities”.
There are Mexican Americans in Texas whose culture is quite similar to that across the border. There are also Mexican Americans in Texas whose culture at home is radically different. And, of course, Anglos living in the border region have a local cultural radically different from that of Mexicans living across the border.
And get more than 100 miles from the Texas/Mexico border, and cultural changes slow to a crawl. It’s only the relatively open borders and flow of people that allow for the limited extent that exists now (existing Mexican influences in Texas largely evolve from pre-independence sources).
Canada and the US have a shared culture/history that’s actually much closer than that between NK and China. There’s not even a language barrier Yet, there’s still a marked adjustment for Canadians moving to the US or vice-versa.
Gently encouraging more spreading of culture isn’t going to change much on either side of the border, especially as you get further from it. Why would it be different between NK and China?
I’m trying to figure out your point here. Your examples show how there are few cultural similarities and little chance for effective change via cultural exchange but you still claim they exist.
I’m really just going from what I read about the six people that made it out. They all made it through China. Maybe I’m using the word culture wrong, but the local rural Chinese helped these folks out. I really don’t see that saying Cultural similarities is a big stretch. They found Koreans, and people that speak Korean in China. At least one of them found a job to help fund their travel.
It is illegal to help these folks out and China even lets (or did at one time) North Korean Police (or whatever you call them) in to search for defectors.
As I said, I think a possible solution would be to slowly open up the border to China. It’s already pretty pourous. There is no way to open the border between SK and NK. At least not now. As more and more people get out, more and more information will get in. Maybe enough to start effecting change.
The tricky part is that neither China or SK wants millions of starving refugees. I really don’t know how to manage the number of people that get out. Currently it’s about 1000 a year.
I couldn’t give you a web-friendly cite, but I know it was written in the book Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader, by Bradley K. Martin. Yes, there is a tremendous amount of re-training involved, and most of their positions are just sinecures, but there is a standing offer for any North Korean officer who defects to the South to be re-commissioned.
Then again, the book was written in 2006, so the situation may have changed…
