I can tell you that in practice by the simple expedient of installing a firewall and touching IE only to go to my banking website (woo Opera etc.), I don’t even have to run spyware removal programs any more (I do occasionally, just out of curiosity). It’s not even a process of keeping spyware at bay - I just don’t get it.
The first account you create in XP will be given Administrator status (I believe - it’s ages since I installed it). You can either use the Administrator account for all admin tasks and switch your main account to a more limited set of access rights, or you can just create a new account. To do this, go into the control panel and find the User Accounts section. Here you should get a list of the accounts the computer has, and a description of their access rights.
Then, either create a new account, or edit an old one. You want a “Limited” account, which will let the user run programs, mess around with the files in their Documents folder and so forth. They’ll be able to install some programs, but not anything that modifies anything important. A program that requires admin rights to be installed will inform you, and you’ll need to log in with an account that has those rights (the “Administrator” account always does). Then simply use the new Limited account as your day-to-day account, and the Administrator account only when necessary.
I don’t have a spyware issue. First you can go into IE and disable a ton of shit under the advance tab. I use Firefox now, so nothing to worry about there. Disable the XP messaging feature which will give you a ton of popups. Disable that remote connect to your computer to fix it bs. Install zone alarm. Enable WAN blocking on my router. You can get new windows host file that will block out tons of shit for IE. And most importantly, DON’T OPEN ANY FUCKING STRANGE ATTACHMENTS!
Lastly I don’t care about the “average” computer user, because the above steps took me 5 minutes, and I get to enjoy much move value for my money.
i reccomend the same thing on OS X boxes, funny, looks like this is just a common-sense step for both OS’s, you’d think more people would implement it…
so, IE seems to be the common issue here, looks like i did the right thing on the store pc by downloading Firefox and setting it to default then…and the “don’t open strange attachments” is common sense, i was just under the impression that Outlook (or is it Outlook Express?) can automatically run attachments even if you don’t click on them, or is that just FUD fearmongering?
see, some of my ignorance about windows is being destroyed…
Windows has problems, no doubt about it. Most of those problems can be avoided, unfortunately Windows user base, isn’t savvy enough to know how and Windows for some reason is just now finally starting to take a more active role in securing their OS.
While OSX is more secure with it’s admin password, there are plenty of people that would click ok and give their password to an application that asked for it without a second thought. Hell I remember back in the classic mac days, a printer asking me to email him dleb ( a mac virus) because a client disk was asking for it and he knew that I all kinds of “stuff”…heh.
The weakest link of any technology will always be the human element. Great technology does all it can to remove the ability for humans to screw it up. Technology designed for the everyman should be just that. I shouldn’t HAVE to download third party programs to keep someone from infecting my computer if I click on a Jpeg or open a webpage. It should be buil-in and updated as problems are found or suspected; not 3 months after.
If I was running a server, yes; but not a personal computer. That stuff such be built-in and automatic. If running root is bad, then I shouldn’t be allowed to run root, UNLESS i know that’s what I need to do. Then I go to the preferences and become root.
Anyway…the easiest way to make a XP more secure is not to use Internet Explorer or Outlook Express. By switching to Foxfire and Thunderbird, I was able to reduce the please help calls from family and friends. That with the “Don’t open anything with: Free, Sex, Tits, Drugs, Help, Hi, Re:…” warning, has made life easier.
Btw, like Badger, I don’t need to run spyware programs either.
Yes, getting rid of IE is a huge first step. Keep in mind though that Firefox recently came out, so we’ve had to secure our boxes using IE, it’s totally possible. As far as outlook, I do the same thing I do with IE, don’t use it. I use Thunderbird which is sort of the email client equivalent of Firefox. It’s made by the same people, and it’s the shit.
I’m not going to lie and say that XP is secure out of the box, it isn’t. But if you know what your doing, and can secure it, I’ve found it to be just as solid as a Mac, and at a fraction of the cost.
As I told Brutus earlier, if you are happy with your particular type of screwdriver, but I like a different kind, that’s fine. You enjoy your screwdriver with my blessing. In other words, I’m not here to try to talk you into buying a Mac, for crying out loud!
You made a pretty outrageous claim ($5000 difference between two supposedly comparable machines) and I (and others here) simply want you to back that up. You are mistaken if you think I’m going to dicker with you about which machine is better for you. You are also mistaken if you believe I’m going to deny that Macs may cost a bit more (depending on your needs and expectations). But we’re talking $5,000 difference here, dude. That’s a pretty big whopper.
I don’t know whether you can afford a Mac or not, since you’ve thrown out some pretty suspect numbers.
Yeah, well, if I’m perfectly honest I decide to take the risk and run using an admin account which I’ve fiddled around with using the security policy tools. I find the “Limited” accounts too limited by half, and I can see why the average user would, too. But, then, I like tinkering, and I know how to mitigate the risks of running as admin. In Linux, by contrast, it’s much easier to get your computer set up so that it’s usable in a low-access account, and the rights escalation tools like sudo and wotnot make it much less of a pain than completely logging out and back in every time an admin access is needed. If Windows had some decent “run as admin” tools I wouldn’t be doing what I do (I suspect there might be some third party tools that do this, but I can’t recall off the top of my head).
Nope, you’re right - there were a couple of vulnerabilities (quite a long time ago, now) that meant OE could be forced to run executable attachments without the user’s intervention. Another large part of OE’s problem was that IE provided the HTML rendering capabilities, so any IE vulns were OE vulns too, by default. Outlook’s way better these days - HTML rendering is restricted to known safe senders, attachments are monitored etc. etc. and so forth. So yeah - not using IE/OE is the single most important thing you can do to make a Windows box a safer place. But Outlook, IMO, is pretty much fine.
I was thinking about picking up a Mac Mini since my LCD has two inputs, and it would be easy on space.
But, after reading this highly original and riveting thread composed of only the most sound common sense, I’m afraid the resulting cognitive dissonance would cause me to kick my own ass repeatedly .
One of my machines is an old W98 SE one, the other two are XPs, much newer. I’ve never used IE, have a firewall, and have never had a virus or lany serious adware problems. I agree that all the adware the OP saw was there already. Yeah, it is unstable unless I run some registry fixing software every so often and it is slow (but that’s the box.) The main problem with MS software is that they make it easy for stupid people to shoot themselves in the foot.
I doubt the OP’s W98 box would run XP without a serious hardware upgrade. I’d install Linux long before I’d ever buy a Mac, but since I get to use Solaris at work I get my fill of a good OS without having to worry about apps that my family wants to use.
Not only do Mac’s never get viruses, but if the aliens ever invade, Jeff Goldblum can use one to program a virus that will wipe out the alien computer. Now that is a cool computer.
My total, going off of the cheapest parts listed on pricewatch, not worrying about any compatibility issues (and being extremely generous) is this:
MoBo w/ Single Athlon 64 2800 $161
4 GB RAM: $71 x 4 = $284 (PC2100 DDR RAM was actually cheaper than 133SDRAM)
20" LCD: $445
2 x 250 GB SATA drives: $117 x 2 = $234
1 SATA Raid Controller: $15
1 power supply: $4
Windows OS: $50
Total: $1193
Assuming you use on-board video (does it even come with that board?), throw all the components in a cardboard box, can actually get this to run on a 200W power supply, have no use for any other components, and honestly believe that the cpu and board I quoted are “equivalent” to 2 2.5GHz G5s, I claim that you are full of shit to the tune of $220.
This, of course, overlooks the fact that you bought Apple’s 20" monitor for $999, but are perfectly happy with some other monitor for your PC. You bought 4 1GB sticks of RAM from Apple for $400-something, but are fine with cheap-ass slow RAM in your other machine. Doing a fair cost comparison would not only bring the cost of the PC up, but would also bring the cost of the Mac down.
I don’t deny that Apples cost more. Some people think it’s worth it, some people don’t. But we could have rational and truthful discussions about it, rather than this crap.
Either that, or please tell me where you buy your parts from.
See, now this is just crazy talk. And I’m not a rabid pc-user, either In fact, I don’t know that I’ve ever been moved to post in one of these threads.
You might convince me that Mac is a superior product for certain apps (unlikely, but possible). But to ignore the price issue is, to me, ridiculous, since it’s probably the first or second consideration when purchasing a system. Nor does it make sense to ignore PC gaming as a huge market. I love to game, most of my adult friends love to game, and if they don’t, their kids do. You can’t assume that all gamers will go for consoles- PC gaming has a lot of unique characteristics (mouse and keyboard control, to name just one) that appeal to many gamers.
It’s been touched upon, but the most glaring flaw that detracts me from Macs is the emphasis on a single button mouse. I swear I feel like a four year old using one of those ‘5 years and under’ DVD players when I’m using a Mac. I have a Logitech MX500, which has EIGHT buttons, and I constantly use every single one of them.
Exorbitant prices and childish interface aside, the one-button standard is outrageous.
The proble with threads like this is that PC users feel the need to defend their product, and the thread then turns into a repetitive and rehashed version of the same PC v. Apple, price v. performance debates that take up way too much internet space already.
I like Apples. I think they’re great computers. There are also things about them that i don’t like, and certain reasons that i prefer a PC. But i feel no particular need to act like a jackass and constantly start threads about the deficiencies of a product that i don’t own, and have no intention of buying.
You know, certain social and cultural groups gets plenty of abuse on these message boards for their alleged attempts to make the world conform to their own sense of what is right. Religious groups, vegetarians, non-smokers are all frequently railed against for their alleged attempts to convert the non-believers. But if you want the ultimate in smug self-satisfaction and holier-than-thou proselytization, look no further than Mac users like the OP. Why don’t you lot just form a fucking new religon already and get it over with.*
this in no way applies to people who use Macs without being total fucking tools about it.
I don’t think Apple’s prices are exorbitant any more than I think Mercedes or BMW prices are exorbitant. You pay more for higher quality and a more complex internal structure. As Steve Jobs once said, “It takes a lot of work to make machines that are this easy to use.”
I do think, however, that the Mac could use a more, uh, “mature?” interface. This, to me, is another reason people can mistakenly regard Macs as toys.
