how do you windows users put up with this?

The BBQ Pit
41

Well, I haven’t tried this one yet, so I can’t say if it’s as easy to use as Garageband. The price range isn’t quite the same, since for $70 you get just the just music app, where with iLife you get iPhoto, iDVD, iMovie, and Garageband. And is it a new version of Acid? Because nobody’s pointed it out before (and I’ve asked—oh how I’ve asked). I see it has the 1,000 included loops, and last I checked there wasn’t anything on the PC side that offered a comparable amount of loops to Garageband. So, this is a step in the right direction.

I wouldn’t use it for Logic or FinalCut, but I’ve used it for Garageband, and while it’s not going to compete with a high end G5, it works better than my old G4 with Garageband, and I did a lot of Garageband work on that old Mac. As far as iMovie, I’ve just done a little bit with it, and it was fine. I can’t promise that it would be good for big projects, though I think an external (faster) Firewire drive would probably help a lot. That, and maxing out the RAM.

Eh, I question those numbers. I can believe that there’s some difference in price, but a difference of over $5,000? Sorry, that’s a little hard to swallow.

42

I put up with my OPC problems safe in the knowledge that I will never exhibit iSmugness.

43

Hey, now. Telling somebody to try Windows ME to see what real problems are like? That’s just mean…

true, but mean…

44

I know I should resist the urge to snark off here, but I can’t resist.

Oh, yeah? Well, I cut my teeth on one of these.

(Anyway, thanks, Czarcasm, for pointing us to an interesting site.)

For the benefit of those who do not yet qualify for computeroldgeezerhood - the dominance of microsquish was largely dependant upon IBM’s decision to buy an operating system for their entry into the microcomputer market, rather than write the code themselves (guess it was beneath their dignity). Their PC architecture quickly became the industry standard for microcomputers, and with it, so did MS-DOS. Microsoft has been playing catchup with Apple ever since.

In fairness to Bill and the boys, I think a large part of the “instability” problem these days comes from the collection of TSR programs that pop up at random intervals to kick some other program in the groin. Makes me long for the days when the only things hunkered down in memory were io.sys and command.com.

45

I just priced it the other day because I’m building a new system, and have wanted to go Mac for years, if only for stability. It came out to $6,000 and change versus the AMD 64-based system I’m going with that came in under $1,000.

46

ahh, yes, the Trash-80 COCO, i remember it well, as well as the Model 1 and Model II (with the whopping 16K ram and dual 5.25" floppies)

my early computers were the Commodore Vic-20, the C64, and the Trash-80 Mod I, II and COCO’s, as well as Apple’s IIe and IIc, but once i started using the Mac 128K, i knew i found the system that worked the way computers should

unfortunately, my parents were too cheap to purchase a Mac 128 (back then, a 128 and ImageWriter II were around $3000, Jobs was greedy even back then) and we had to trudge along on a Commodore 64 that was slowly dying (intermittent power supply, bad sound chip)

47

Please, could you give specific hardware configurations, detail by detail, that led to these dollar amounts? I’m not saying it’s not possible, but it sounds highly unusual and not at all typical.

48

Each to their own. I’m favorably impressed with XP — Microsoft has come a long long way.

But as far as I’m concerned, having to pay 6 or 8 times as much to get a Mac instead of a PC is worth it. All computers are cheaper these days than they used to be. Paying $11,000 instead of $2500 was a lot more daunting than paying $2700 instead of $300. It’s not like I have to do it often. I bought my last new computer in spring of '99 and it looks like I’ll go another year before upgrading, unless I need to run an application or a hardware device that this one can’t handle well (hasn’t happened yet). Blowing something less than 3 grand every 5-6 years isn’t going to put me in the poorhouse.

::smiles in anticipation of a dual-G5 PowerBook::

49

I should add that I consider “paying 6 to 8 times as much” to be a hypothetical construct. I’ve seen other price comparisons that indicate that unless you build your own from boards and ports and cases and parts, you don’t pay much of a premium for a Mac as opposed to an equivalently equipped PC.

I’m just saying that even if it is 6 to 8 times more expensive to buy a Mac, that’s no big deal, it’s worth it.

50

I use a Windows machine at work and have Macs at home. I find them roughly equivalently easy to use in day-to-day use. But when things go sour, I find that Windows is a lot tougher to fix.

However, your one specific example of one instance in which PC’s are inferior: When you buy a new machine or reformat a disk, how long does it take you to restore everything to its previous state? On a Mac: hook up Firewire and copy the disk. On a PC: Copy what you can, then reinstall every piece of software so that the registry stuff all works.
As for the Mac Mini, I’m still trying to parse $500.00 as “megabucks”. Particularly as the operating system and iLife is included.

51

Ok.

Dual 2.5 ghz
4gb Ram
2x250gig SATA/Raid1
20" Display (cheapest)
Ethernet Card

$5,973.00

Comparable AMD64-based system:
$973

52

Security by obscurity is not security at all. Besides, you can build your own Linux box for cheaper and probably with better parts.

I run XP on my machine, I have a router/hardware firewall and my computer automatically scans and updates and protects itself because it’s s-m-r-t that way.

It also has all kinds of blinky lights and computer bling and I built it myself. :stuck_out_tongue:

Anyway, I can’t stand those macs, mostly because I have no idea how those things don’t overheat and melt they cram so much shit into those tiny containers. I like being able to easily upgrade parts when I want/need to and not having to having to slice my hand off or find special parts in the process.

53

That’s what you call “detail by detail”? Come on, you’ve got to be kidding me! I mean, details for each piece of hardware, prices, everything.

And do you mean to tell me that you got a 20" display for the AMD computer included in that $973 price? With 4 GB or RAM, and everything? And how exactly did all of this break down, pray tell? And what kind of display was it? LCD? CRT? Couldn’t you use the same display for the Mac as for the PC? I’m sharing a NEC LCD monitor between my Mac and PC right now.

54

Erm, define “comparable”. I’m having real trouble believing anything like that spec could be bought for under a grand. A 20" display alone is going to run you something like $500 at the low end, and I really can’t see getting two top-end AMD64s within the rest of the budget.

55

Huh? The last Mac that came without builtin ethernet was probably 10 years ago.

56

If that were all it was, I’d agree. But it’s not. “Obscurity” didn’t protect pre-OS X Macs from viruses—they had them. All of a sudden, with OS X, no more viruses. The nature of the platform seems to be the reason for that.

57

Naw, I’ve got nothing to prove. I"m secure in the knowledge that I can’t afford the Mac and am getting what I want. And nothing’s going to change your mind!

58

I’m in freejooky’s camp here. When the old “core” of my studio recently died, I wanted to replace it with the good stuff. At the end of the day the PC I assembled was about half the cost of a comparitive Apple. Go with what you want, but don’t ask how we can live with MS. My XP box is bombproof, spyware/trojan free, and runs like greased lighting on angeldust. Not a single crash since I built it 10 months ago.

59

Seriously, I’d like to know what spec you’re expecting from that $973. I spent about that much 9 months ago, and got an AMD64 3000+, 1GB of RAM, 160GB of drive space and no peripherals. If you can find a dual-processor, half-terabyte RAID system with 4 gigs of memory and a 20" studio display for the same money, I will quite frankly eat my hat.

The daft thing about this is that it’s pretty obvious that like-for-like, Macs are indeed more expensive than PCs. I just don’t see why you need to compare the absolute top-of-the-range Mac with what as far as I can see is going to be a mid-to-low spec PC with no peripherals.

60

so what you’re saying is that in theory if you take a windows box, install anti-spyware apps (Ad-Aware and Spybot), keep them updated, and turn off all the “helpful” crap in the OS, you shouldn’t have a spyware issue, right?

another question about XP, it’s in my (probably wrong) understanding that XP, by default, will permit any app to take control of the OS and install software or do other potentially malicious things, for example, on an XP box without anti-spyware apps on it, IE/OE will permit websites to install apps behind the scene without user intervention, correct?, if this is the case, how does one disable these “helpful” features

to use Unix/OS X terminology, it’s my (once again, probably wrong) understanding that windows ships in an inherently unsecure form, and it’s up to the user to secure it, i.e. windows would be running in “root”, OS X defaults to an Admin level account that still has some system folder restrictions that an Admin can’t circumvent without a root password or Terminal command, wheras OS X ships in a slightly more secure state, it’s not completely locked down, but it’s not wide-open either

so, how would one go about bringing XP to a more secure state, assume i know nothing about XP, explain as you would to a reasonably skilled end-user…

sorry if the OP came off a little harsh, as i stated in the OP, i have an irrational hatred of windows, so i may have come off harsher than i intended, i’m legitimately curious how the windows crowd deals with spyware and why they tolerate it, i’d think there’d be a grassroots campaign to hunt down and punish the people/companies responsible for the scourge of spyware…