I had a customer a week or so ago who was pretty upset to discover my store has a no refund policy. We will fix the item. You excahnge it for anything we sell of equal value. You can establish a store credit that you may use at your liesure, but you cannot get a refund.
Early the day after he stomped out in a huff we fixed it {very minor issue} and called him imediately to tell him. A couple of weeks later we get a letter from his credit card company saying he is disputing the charge and it appears he presented it to them as if he had returned it and we had just neglected to credit him. Pyou little fibber} I called him right away to tell him that we had recieved the inquiry from his credit card Co. and we were not refunding his money {as he was already informed} and his amp was ready to be picked up or he could use the credit for something else.
My question is how does a credit dispute work. Can/will the credit card company just make a ruling and act accordingly?
Do different companies handle it differently?
The credit card company that my company deals with will try to work with both sides (effort put in depending on amount in dispute) but ultimately the credit card company decides the outcome. I don’t know if there is any appeal from that decision.
The credit card company will investigate the purchaser’s claim and will decide if a chargeback is warranted. If your store has a no refund policy, that will be taken into account but it’s no guarantee that a chargeback won’t be granted.
Actually, I’m not entirely sure this has anything to do with the CC issuer (the bank that gave your customer the card). More likely it will be down to whatever agreeement you have in place with your merchant aquirer and/or the network - normally there will be a contract somewhere that details under what circumstances you will accept a card, which cards you will accept and how much you will have to pay the network/processor for the privilege of having Visa/MasterCard/Amex/whatever as a payment option. What constitues a valid chargeback would be covered in that agreement, I think.
There may be circumstances where the card processing is supplied by BigBank merchant services and a BigBank Visa card customer has a problem, but even then there are usually chinese walls separating the two businesses and they make their own independent decisions.
The CC may have accidental dammage and extended warenttee protection, which you might get your money, AND he will not be charged.
Because the item was defective, it does give him an edge, he returned it and you didn’t seem to offer him anything when he left - so technically he was not fibbing, and a refurbished item you offered him is not the same as a new one. Around here refurbs and remanufactured items must clearly state that they are such and not new.
Slaphead provided some very good info here. (The merchant acquirer is the company with whom the merchant deals with directly, who then works with the association, the banks, etc. It gets kind of complicated. I used to manage credit card systems for a large ecommerce outfit.)
The OP was a bit mysterious about a couple of things, though. It sounds like the customer wanted a refund for defective merchandise (as opposed to just capriciously wanting to return something). Stores are generally free to set their own return/refund policies, although the sale of defective merchandise may bit somewhat more gray. There is probably also an issue as to whether the manufacturer is responsible under warranty, or whether the store must accept returns of defective merchandise.
Further, as mentioned, it may not be acceptable to do a little in-store fix for the customer, unless the store is an authorized warranty service center for the manufacturer.
The fact that the merchandise was defective is what throws a monkey wrench into the OP’s argument.
(We used to get a lot of chargebacks due to fraudulent card use. We had a “no refund” policy. In a case like that, if you have the cardholder’s signature then you’re safe. Of course, with ecommerce, you don’t. So when we got chargebacks we would challenge them with the bank; sometimes we won and sometimes we didn’t. If not we just revoked the product, which was an online service.)
Unless you’re selling used stuff, most states prohibit no refund policies to a point. There’s always an implied warranty of some sort. I see that both of you are in the “backward south” though, so consumer protection laws may not probit that sort of stuff.
As a matter of fact (this is GQ after all), you’re probably disuading a lot of the more savvy customers in the world from shopping at your locale if you have such a policy. Again, unless you’re selling used stuff.
I’m sorry folks I didn’t make the OP clear. We sell new and used music gear and this customer bought a *used *amp. He was aware it was used. We offer a limited gaurentee even on the used items and its repair {which we did the very next morning} or you can exchange it or get a credit to be used at some future date.
Our repair guys are certified technicians. The reciept and the return policy by the registers clearly states “all sales final” Unless a customer asks about the return policy they may not know it when they leave with a used item. I try to tell most customers but on a busy day sometimes you forget.
Lots of music stores have a no refund policy on gear. Major chains like Guitar Center are the exception.
I find customers are a little spoiled by liberal return policies at other types of stores {which you might have noticed are changing} and some just don’t want to accept it. They throw a little hissy fit in the store and then try the deny the charge thing.
I think he was fibbing, {as many do} by suggesting that we were supposed to credit him and hadn’t, rather than telling them the honest details , including our return policy, and asking if he could deny the charge. We had comparable amps available and usually will cut the customer a break on price if it’s close to keep them happy. This guy just decided he wanted his money back regardless of our policy.
I was just wondering how that all worked. I thank you for your input.
Sounds like the dispute will probably come out in your favor. However, I HATE companies that don’t refund money. HATE THEM. To the point that I will not do business with them. Ever.
Just a little customer feedback. Good luck on your dispute. The guy knew the deal up front and should getthefuckoverit.
As you can see in my previous post the merchandise is used. It’s an interesting point you make though. Many music stores have a no refund policy but there may indeed be consumer laws that protect customers from such policies. I wonder how far those laws go. If we can replace it with the exact same item can they still demand a refund? If we have an item that comparable or even a little better can they still demand their money back?
What seems reasonable to me is a refund for those incidents where they bought an item we have no replacement for and we’re asking them to find a totally different item to spend their money on.
We’ve had rare cases where the customer goes out and buys something else to fill the need before they give us a chance to fix or replace. Thats a sticky one.
The rent for free scam is one retailers really have to watch out for and you’d be surprised how many “nice” people just want to play with something a while and then return it. I don’t think that was the case here but we offered him very reasonable solutions and he just refused. We’ll see what happens.
Buy cars much?
I don’t always agree with my stores policies but after a couple of decades in retail I’ve seen how many customers abuse return policies. The key to me is honest communication. If you know the deal up front you can make an informed choice. I think stores and sales people have an ethical responsibility to do that. Customers also have an ethical responsibility to not buy something just to try it out, use it for free, or indulge an impulse that costs the store money when you change your mind. Perhaps big box stores can absorb the exspense of those customers but you’ll notice many of those stores are changing their policies because of irresponsible and less than honest customers in unacceptable percentages. Unfortunatly honorable customers feel the effect of policies aimed at the bad guys.
Just out of curiousity. Do you think you should be able to try out new items and return them as a used item and get a full refund?
What we are asking is that if a customer decides we have an item they want, and after the sale changes their mind, they make an effort to find an item that fills the bill. It’s not a perfect world and we can’t please everybody.
Charge backs are a fact of life in many businesses. The trick is winning them.
If you buy a small botique hotel with a 48 hour cancellation policy, it will be about three days before someone calls with less than an hour notice with a story about the dog dying and them needing their deposit back in full.
The credit card company will back you if you make your policies clear ahead of time.
If you have a website, put your policies in the website.
Since it was used when bought then I think the advantage is back in your court, but then again I don’t see why you wouldn’t take it back, as it is still a ‘used’ item.
Actually I have seen them towards more liberal return policies with the exception of a ‘return black list’ where frequent returners are barred from returning. But this may be a reagonal thing.
Also I activally avoid no-return policy stores, though I rarely return anything, perhaps 1x/year. It just seems like the store does not have any confidence in the quality of it’s products, and is just interested in making a quick buck - if I wanted that I know quite a few places where goods have fallen off the back of a truck, and they are usually cheaper then a ‘standard’ store.
Depending on the store and it’s policies and the product and your intentions. I knew someone who would buy a new VCR for a ski trip then return it on the last day, which is clear abuse of such a policy. OTOH I have bought items that the sales people said if this doesn’t work for you just bring it back and we will either get you a different one or your money back (this to me is a store that cares about their customers’ experence with the store and the product).
Back to the OP, IIRC another person had such a problem with a no-return store, he shipped the product back to the store, which gave him proof of the return, then used that to obtain a CC refund.
LOL… for the record the quotes in this contect imply “so-called” and hence I hope you know that I didn’t mean to imply that you’all were inbred hillbillies with a General Lee on blocks in your front yards. The south hasn’t been like that since all the northerners migrated there in the late 70’s and 80’s.
It costs money to handle goods and for goods to take up space in the store. It also costs money to process a charge and to do a charge back.
Can you give me an example of this. It surprises me. Stores like Circuit City, Best Buy, Sears etc. are targets for the rent for free scam. The last time I looked Best Buy had a list of items that had a restocking fee. Camcorders, Digital Cameras, laptop computers, and others. All targetsa of the rent for free game. People buy big screen TVs just for Superbowl Sunday and then return them. At CC we had two college students who bought a laptop to do a term paper. CC was the first major chain that instituted a restocking fee on laptops. Boy were they pissed to discover their term paper would cost $200. They lied and swore that their salesman told them promised they could get a refund. Their term papaer in plain view when the computer was booted up. When they got profane and abusive they were told to leave the store. A manager told me about chronic returners. People who go buy new items just to play with them and amuse themselves wityh no intention of keeping them. At Circuit City we could bring up a customers purchase history and on some you could see that they bought several exspensive items a year and returned everyone of them for a period of several years. I think stores should be able to black list those customers.
You sound like a responsible and considerate consumer. Unfortuantly there are many who aren’t and over a period of years that has translated into millions of dollars for stores. I’m not sure what quality of products has to do with return policy. In a world of mass production some items will be dfective and we gladly replace or repair them. If a consumer says “this one doesn’t work right I’d like another” that’s okay. The problem lies with people who have increasingly abused a liberal return policy, rather than be a responsible consumer like yourself.
Exactly. As years have passed the percentage of people who do this has risen. It’s the old “everybody does it” justification. There are places where you can rent those but people see the rent for free scam as what…smarter? As far as I’m concerned it’s stealing. BTW if anyone ever off handedly braggs about that kind of thing remember to thank them for fucking things up for the honest customers because that’s exactly what’s happened.
Stores care about the customer experience in how it relates to profit. Would you spend $20 to $50 more on a $200 item at a store with a money back policy? If you would then stores can afford to have that policy. You probably want stores to have the same price on an item and would percieve the higher price store in a bad light. We want customers to be happy so they will come back and shop again but lines have to be drawn so we can make money. When a company makes a policy decision it’s about profit. We run a music gear rental buisness in the same store. Take a guess at what would happen if we allowed people to buy and then return items at will for a full refund.
As I mentioned , I don’t always agree with my stores policy or how it is applied. I think it’s fine to have a rule and then be good to customers when an exception to the rule arises. Companies are also limited by what the manufacterer will allow. On some items we cannot send it back once purchased even if there’s a problem. The manufacterer requires a repair option first.
You’re probably not the kind of customer who thinks if you throw a hissy in the store you’ll get what you want. There’s plenty out there.
The problem is that too many customers have gotten lazy and irresponsible because the store policies made it easy for them to do it. What stores are trying to do now is return a portion of the repsonsibility to the customers and weed out the scam artists
To clarify, It’s not a no return policy. It’s a no refunds policy. There is a big difference. We offer customers several options.
Yeah that’s kinda what I was wondering about. If the customer has no product will the CC company rule in their favor regardless of store policy. I’m sure CC companies have to consider their agreement with the merchant as well. I’ll have to check with the secratary to see how it turns out. Someone also raised a good question about consumer protection laws as well. I have no idea how they are here in TN.
I think you’re on solid ground with your store policy posted and printed on the receipt. I imagine the bank would rule in your favor.
Somewhat tagentially. . . .
The rent-for-free scam is prevalent in ladies’ clothing, believe it or not. I once knew a woman who actually bought a dress just to wear it one night then returned it the next day. Apparently this was not a particularly original idea. Some manufacturers started putting tags in conspicuous places and will require intact tags for a return.
Another scam is stolen merchandise returned for a cash refund. I can’t remember the details of how these work but some stores will give you a refund even if you don’t have a receipt.
Here in Wisconsin you must refund the money, if when the item was purchased, the item was defective. The store does not have to give a person back money for a purchased item for any reason other than that , if thay didn’t indicate at the time of purchase, that they would.
A charge dispute leaves the disputed amount out of the card holders interest incruing total, but counts in the total limit of their account. The person will only have the charge removed, if it was an error. Your store will prevail in the case as you stated. I had to disbute a charge because they were switching systems at a store and a manual charge and a electronic charge was sent a day apart for the same purchase. I told the credit company what happened and they sent out the desputed charge form to the store. A month later the extra charge was removed. That is what the procedure is for.
but my wife is in the women’s clothing business, and even though it’s supposedly the high end of the business, she sees this not infrequently. They do know the “regulars,” however, and walk them through the store now, waltz them through and back out the door, but occasionally, someone will bring some merchandise back in that smells of perfume. Clearly, a “rental.” And I remember many years ago when a friend of mine was working his way through school selling shoes and purses at his dad’s store and he’d tell stories of women buying purses on Fridays and bringing them back on Mondays with pennies and little crumbles of tobacco down in the bottoms of them. I’d hate to be a store owner, trying on the one hand to curry favor with customers, trying like hell to be trusting and fair, and then having people trying to get what they can from you. I feel for the OP. Trying to do the right thing.