How does one defend oneself against bio-weapons?

Factual Questions
1

There seems to be lots of stuff in the news lately about the possibility of biological weapons being used by terrorists. Is there anything that we can do on the household level that might help if anything like this does happen? IE, if someone poisons the water supply, it would help to have several jugs of bottled water lying around. If we get Anthrax because the corn field behind my house was dusted with it instead of anti-bug-stuff last time they dusted the crops, it’d be handy to have the latest anti-Anthrax vaccine lying around. However, it might prove to be a little more difficult to get that than the water jugs.

So what’s the dope on this? Gas Masks? All-in-one Anthrax/Smallpox/Ebola/Captain Trips vaccines? Is there anything we could do if biological warfare broke out?

2

IANABWE (bio-weapons expert), but I suspect this will have the same answer as when somebody asked how to survive a nuclear blast: don’t be there when it goes off. Tricky thing is, if they’re cropdusting w/anthrax, living in the bondocks won’t help any if your neighbor grows corn.

tain’t no such thing as an all-in-one vaccine. Friend of mine just had to have his shots renewed in case he gets called up to active duty. 18 shots in one morning. He was not a happy camper.

3

On a personal level, there really isn’t much you can do except hope that it doesn’t happen to you. Biological or chemical attacks are public health problems and have to be taken care of on a much larger scale.

Just like an earthquake or a tornado, you can only hope that you’re not in the wrong place when one hits.

4

One hauls ass in a direction away from the biochemical agent.

5

I too am not a biological/chemical weapons expert, but I respectfully take exception to this.

First, allow me to point out that there is plenty you can do to prepare for earthquakes and tornados. For example, a friend of mine from Oklahoma has a tornado shelter attached to his house.

With respect to chemical and biological attacks, perhaps it makes sense to keep a gas mask around. Yes, it might not be handy when you need it; but then again, it might be.
I’m sure there are other things one can do, at an individual level, to lessen the hazard posed by bio/chem attack. (No, they won’t eliminate the danger entirely)

6

DO NOT haul ass away from a biological attack if there is the least possibility that you have contracted the disease. You will only contribute to the deaths of hundreds, thousands, or millions more people by spreading the contagion.

If I get nabbed with something, I’m not effing leaving the Beltway. I’ll live or die like one who cares for humanity, and stay the hell put. Who knows, maybe someone will actually eulogize me as a lover of humanity, which would make me laugh were I not dead.

Your safest bet is to go home, contacting as few people as possible, button things up, and don’t answer the door for anybody. That goes double for the Domino’s delivery boy, who might as well be one of the Four Horsemen in a contagious bio-weapon scenario.

7

Umm . .okay . . we’ve established that if you are in the vicinity of a biological/chemical attack, you are a denizen of Suck Ass City. Let’s say we’re not prepared to go down that easily, let’s say you are sitting at home watching SlopBC sitcoms and the local news bulletin that anthrax has been detected in your town comes on.

Here’s a link from Worstcasescenario.com:

http://www.worstcasescenarios.com/exclusives.htm
The anthrax scenario is pretty scary, with the respiration scenario the most lethal. You can’t smell or taste it. The symptoms are cold like, followed by difficulty breathing, and shock. Shots needs to be done early, or the survival rate is 10%. You have about 48 hours max before you die without treatment.

I would say obviously the first thing to do is to shut off all ventilation in the house, and walk around with a cloth to prevent any particles from getting in your respiratory system. If a family member enters the house, segregate them in a seperate room, with a towel under the door.

Okay, this might not 100% guarantee it will work, but what are you going to do, open all the windows and turn on a fan?

Get to the hospital with the first symptoms of cold like symptons. At this point, there is a good chance you may be infected, may as well say hell with it and go outside.

Hopefully the National Guard will be in town with protective clothing, vaccines, and evacuation and clean up plans, so sit tight and stay indoors until they show up.

If after 72 hours nothing happens, you will probably be okay, though anthrax spores can hide for years. It’s nasty stuff.

You may also find this article interesting. Allegedly the Commies had a little anthrax spillage over 20 years ago:

http://www.central.edu/homepages/weihep/bio101/USSR.htm

As for cyanide and other attacks, my guess is if you are in your house you will be okay, just don’t drink tap water.

8

I disagree with almost all the previous posters, Athena; I think that there is a great deal that one can do on the personal level against an attack using biological weaponry.

IMHO, the answer lies in what the research has found about the AIDS epidemic**:** grow yourself a strong immune system. I am NOT an expert in this area, but as I see it there are two main fronts on which to attack the problem:[list=1][li]Give the immune system all the building blocks that it needs to product the myriad of things it uses to fight invaders. I suspect that just by doing this, a survival-odds of 10% can be raised to 40% or even as high as 60%. Top-notch immune systems can fight off a huge amount of attacking microbes. From what I know this means[ul][]a fairly high level of calories (but don’t start gaining weight—that’s the clue that you’re getting MORE than needed)[]a goodly amount of exercise (I suggest walking to the store instead of driving, for example), partly to allow caloric intake without excessive weight-gain[]a heavy amount of good-quality protein (I–me–suggest a variety of proteins: dairy, different meats, legumes)[](I forgot one while typing about exercise :frowning: )[/ul][*]Don’t shirk (and, Boy!, is this hard to do when you’re worrying about microbes) “challenging” your immune system so that, like exercising a muscle, it stays ready to defend on a moment’s notice, “on call”.[/list=1]I not a medico nor a bio-reseacher but I do follow my own advice (–except for that 13 oz. bag of extra-nacho tortilla chips I inhaled last night, washed down with a bottle of extra-fine, vintage [Sept. 2, I think] Hurricaine beer). :)[/li]
Good immune systems are, I believe, the arch-enemy of a biological assault.

9

You’ll resemble Norman Bates’ friggin’ mother by the time the National Guard comes to the rescue, Vinnie.

I doubt the National Guard has protective clothing in bulk, much less vaccines and clean-up plans.

My advice would be to short sell your portfolio, forget about doing the dishes, and cancel your plans for that lazy vacation in Aruba.

10

Unfortunately there isn’t a helluva lot you can do to prepare yourself.

Keep bottled water around and a good supply of long lasting (non-perishable) food on hand. If the worst happens getting to a supermarket or finding one with anything it it will be difficult if not impossible. No new food will be shipped to stores for a long time after a bio or chemical attack (at least not till its extent is known and cleanup measures have been taken).

Make sure you have a decent medical kit handy with all the basics. Not that anything in there will be particularly useful against the attack but you never know and it is worth having as you will probably no longer be able to go to a hospital for anything but the most serious of problems. They will be flooded well beyond capacity as it is.

The link Vinnie Virginslayer provided does a good job of describing an Anthrax infection. If you know you have been infected (i.e. saw the cropduster fly overhead or heard about it on the news) there is a good chance for survival. Go to a hospital (along with a few million other people) and pray you can get some antibiotics. Once symptoms show (I believe a few days after infection…symptoms resemble a common cold at first) its too late. It might be worth being in a hospital but mostly you just have to ride it out and pray a lot. At this point the death rate is over 90% for those infected (the CDC says it is usually fatal).

If you know Anthrax is what has just hit your city then Sofa King’s admonition about staying home and not spreading the disease is meaningless. From the CDC’s website:

If the attack is contagious I would bet money the government would try to lock down the area and not allow people to leave anyway.

A gas mask would be a useful item to have. Realize that not all gas masks are equal. They usually tell you what things the gas mask is effective against. Also realize that a gas mask doesn’t work forever…the filters need to be changed. If you have warning put your gas mask on and get the hell out of Dodge. Remember to travel upwind if possible to get you out of the affected area sooner.

A recent report I saw said gas masks are nearly impossible to buy right now as nearly all stock has been sold-out. If you buy today you might be able to get one in 30 days from what I heard.

Otherwise shut all your windows and turn off the air conditioner/heater (it probably doesn’t take in outside air but it moves air around giving a greater chance of exchanging ‘bad’ air for good). Put towels under your doors and anywhere else that is drafty. Frankly most homes are nowhere near airtight but do what you can anyway.

Beyond that hope and pray (if that’s your thing) should the worst happen.

If you are able to move away from a high target area (most large cities…say anything over a million people) then I’d probably do so. Chances are nothing like this will happen (I can’t imagine the hell there will be to pay if it does) but why take a risk if you don’t have to?

11

Not so. If you hear news reports about farm workers suddenly dying from anthrax, that will be a good indication that you should pass on the corn at the dinner table. (Problem is, you’ll never really know where your grocer’s corn was picked.)

Sea Sorbust, a good diet and plenty of exercise are meaningless in the face of inhalation anthrax. The good news (I hope) is that some experts are now suggesting it would take several metric tons of anthrax to kill a large percentage of a metropolitan area–at least if spread aerially. That would require repeated application, which is unlikely.

That said, the city would be contaminated for years.

12

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by tsunamisurfer *
**

I know this thread is a bit old but I just read in yesterday’s Chicago Sun Times that estimates were done by the government that indicate 200 pounds of anthrax let loose upwind of Washington D.C. would result in approximately 3,000,000 deaths. (I can’t find a link to the article on the Sun Times web site but I don’t think they post articles till several days after publication).

I also head a report on NPR (look for the piece titled Anthrax in Central Asia) that talked about a former Russian bio-weapons facility on an island in the Aral Sea. While the site is now defunct there is still lots of nastiness on the island including viable Anthrax spores. Worse, these anthrax spores were bio-engineered to be more robust and possibly more lethal than their natural counterparts.

Russia thought that the island was somewhat unreachable but irrigation has drastically lowered the levels of the Aral Sea making the island accessible. (You can see the drastic shrinking of the Aral Sea here). Note the part of the world that is in (the sea is actually between Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan…not real close to Afghanistan but not too far either).

13

Whack-a-Mole: Two hundred pounds (the approx. equiv. of 3,000,000 deaths) of anthrax would fit into a couple of suitcases. :eek: No? And, would fit easily into the trunk of a Volkswagon Beetle (old style).

Your reference to the Aral Sea is especially disquiting in light of the very recent rumor(link to baseless rumor) (search for “State of T”) that bin Laden has packed up from Afganistan and moved to Kazakhstan.

[hijack] It is a minor hijack but we have the same problem with Mexico and the Sea of Cortez, (aka, “Gulf of California”), as does Central Asia and the Aral Sea by virtue of diverting huge amounts of irrigation waters from the Colorado River. (We don’t notice it since the Sea of Cortez is connected to the Pacific Ocean.) Mexican citizens living near the exit of the Colorado are badly effected. [/hijack]

tsunamisurfer posted:

I disagree with your assessment, tsunamisurfer. Firstly, of course, there is Whack-a-Mole’s post suggesting that a mere 200 pounds (100[sup]-[/sup] kilograms) would do it. Secondly, in these days of genetic modifications, there are a lot of micro-bugs available besides the classical ones such as anthrax.

Athena, should someone use, say, a flu virus which had been genetically modified to be especially virulent, then an extra-sturdy immune system would be very valuable; perhaps even life-saving**: Eat well and exercise!**, I say.

14

First of all, I am not an expert, but I have had training in nuclear. biological and chemical warfare. There’s not much you can do. Even a full bunny suit, gas mask, gloves and boots only work for a while. A lot of chemical weapons are absorbed through the skin as well, so you would need to completely cover up. Then, because the powder and residue clings, everytime you remove any clothing, or go to the bathroom you would need to decontaminate before getting clothed again. The suits are very hot, and hard to move around in. Most people would not be able to get their masks on in time (I think you have a max of nine seconds) with a proper seal, and the canister is only good for a while. Against some biological weapons, nothing will really work, excpet maybe a vaccine. We used to have to carry atrophine (I think).

The best you can hope for is it doesn’t happen to you.

15

I will agree that 200 pounds doesn’t seem like much. Certainly it is scary because, as you mentioned, it is easily carried around in a car.

However, what I do not know is just how easy it is to create 200 pounds of anthrax. These are little guys so 200 pounds is quite a lot. I sure with some industrial techniques that much could be whipped up but if you are a terrorist doing this in your basement I’m not so sure how easy it is. Also, the article made no mention of just how the anthrax is released. IIRC anthrax can take the form of a powder in its spore form (which allows it to hang around for years, even decades…another problem). Does it need to be disolved and sprayed? Are there weather conditions that affect its use? I don’t think they had in mind dumping a 200 pound pile of dust on a street as having the effects they were describing (then again they might…I don’t know).

As to having a good immune system I wouldn’t count on that helping you. Usually a good immune system is a desirable thing so I’m not suggesting you go out and get unhealthy. However, in some cases it can be your own immune system that kills you (one example is people allergic to bee stings…it’s their own immune system that does them in).

When it comes to anthrax you can forget it. Once you show symptoms of anthrax infection there is an almost 100% fatality rate. For other things such a tularemia or plague a good immune system might help and it might not…I don’t know.

Just remember that bio-weapons are chosen for their lethality. From that perspective your enemies are going to choose something that very few people, regardless of their health, will live through.

16

There is something, Whack-a-Mole, that we (almost) all take for granted: That the people to worry about are Arabs, Muslims, and are linked to O. bin Laden. We have been told this by the press and, later, by some parts of the government.

Firstly, I’ve never heard it mentioned on TV, but a couple of days after the attack, the WSJ published (front page) a list of what organizations lived in the WTC. The top four floors of one of the towers were totally occupied by four different TV stations. The TV news folk appear to be neutral, but they all must have [good] friends killed in the (manned, winged) bombings.

Secondly, nearly all of us believe that the “attackee” was the United States. The assumption was that the bomb which hit the Pentagon was first looking for the White House (but got scared off?) or maybe the State Department (couldn’t find it?) before it flew into the Pentagon Bldg. What we do know for certain was that the attack was against the World Trade Center and that the only other (?) previous attack of this nature was also against the WTC. It is not clear to me that anyone can definitively say that the target was the U.S., as contrasted to “Internationalism” or “World Trade”. In fact, “World Trade” has recently been under a lengthy sequence of attacks, most recently in Italy and a year ago in Seattle and that those attacks have been increasingly violent.

Finally, there is ALWAYS the very real possibility that someone other than the bin Laden organization was “using” the individuals who attacked the WTC as “cannon fodder”–the infantry who are sent to their deaths but who don’t really care. (I think that the term came out of the new Republic of France, whose Chief-General was a great believer in artillery. Many patriotic French Republicans volunteered and went to their death in the name of Republicanism.)

I’ve said all this because it makes a great deal of difference who is behind any military operation. If those who are directing the operations have only the resources (intellectual, fiscal, logistical) available in the wilds of, say, Afganistan, then “times are tough”. If, on the other hand, the “puppet masters” (with appologies to R. Heinlein) are intellectually astute and well-heeled, with training in biotechnology, then the manufacuture of, say, AttackVirus “X”, might be no-big-deal. Perhaps even snuck in between real production work as a digital signal is snuck in between the analog signals on a telephone line. In Newark, say. Or Trenton. All they need to do to actually deliver the stuff is find a contact to some rabid, Jihad-loving Muslims (of which there is no shortage), and . . . . :frowning:

17

I’m not sure where you are going with this Sea Sorbust. That the WTC and Pentagon were chosen for attacks is no big mystery. Terrorists want maximum damage and maximum psychological effect. Maximum damage can include many things and certainly encompass economic damage as well as physical damage. The WTC offered a neat, one stop shop package for the terrorists.

As to the media pointing fingers unfairly because they lost people in the WTC I wouldn’t worry too much. There are a LOT of media outlets so even if you go with the assumption that one media source isn’t objective because they want to see retaliation another media source will be objective. Indeed, other media outlets would love to catch a competitor up to some shenanigans so I doubt this is a real concern. This ‘catching other media outlets’ was illustrated recently when CNN was accused of using 10 year-old stock footage of Palestinians celebrating the WTC attacks…CNN spent the next several days vehemently denying they did any such thing (it turned out CNN was innocent in this case).

As to terrorists not being able to come up with anything dealy in the wilds of Afghanistan you underestimate them. One of UbL captains is an Egyptian doctor. UbL himself is a college educated millionaire. At least four recently learned how to navigate and fly a commercial jet. In short they are not all uneducated brutes and seem quite capable of gaining the knowledge they need for whatever it is they are up to. Also, remember that many terrorist organizations enjoy support from governments. These governments may provide all sorts of nastiness for them to use. Even bombed out Iraq would easily have the means to manufacture anthrax and Saddam Hussein would probably be more than happy to give it to terrorists to attack the United States.

Finally, who really did the attacks is important only in so far as you know the right people to go after. It doesn’t behoove the US to make UbL a scapegoat and leave the real attackers alone since they will just come back and hurt you again. If we are going after UbL then I think the US either really believes he did it or is being duped by an insanely clever enemy that is misleading us at every turn. Hopefully it is not the latter.

18

A co-worker of my wife’s is convinced the world is about to end, or at least Beaumont. In addition to the gas masks she bought for all members of her household except for her mother, she also went to her doctor and got an “anti-anthrax” pill. I’d never heard of this before and don’t know it’s name but she claimed it’s effective if taken within 12 to 24 hours of exposure. Assuming it works for everyone and not just dizzy blondes in inappropriate tight leather, you might want to check with your GP about this.

19

There is no such thing as an “anti-anthrax” pill. There are anti-biotics which might help but I don’t think one pill will suffice.

If you know you have been exposed to anthrax and get medical help you will probably survive. From what I’ve read antibiotics are a big part of it as well as vaccination.

Vaccination against anthrax is a series of shots taken over the course of several months and the recipient must receive boosters every few years. I have no idea how effective a partial vaccination is. Currently ALL anthrax vaccinations in the US are reserved for military use.

It’s been said before but I’ll say it again. Once you show symptoms of anthrax contagion it is all over for you. No pill, no vaccination, no being hooked-up to million dollar machines in a hospital is going to save you. It is extremely lethal to near 100% effectiveness. I suppose a few people here and there have bucked the odds but it sounds like winning a lottery…not very likely.

Whatever that lady got is probably a placebo the doctor handed over to make her go away. Either that or the doctor os a snake oil salesman.

20

As you say, Whack-a-Mole.

You later said:

I only said that “times [in Afganistan] are tough”. I most certainly don’t underestimate ObL, nor the organization around him, and agree with your stance.