How Does "Suicide" Work???

The BBQ Pit
21

I thought men and women shared about the same number of blood vessels. :rolleyes: You’re being a dickwad AcidKid.
Back to the OP though. How does suicide work? Not very well for those who have to clean up the mess, physical and otherwise.

From some personal experience with the issue, it is a sense of disconnectedness from your ‘self’ that allows you to take that ultimate step. When you are not able to feel anything, when you have lost whatever that thing is that connects you to your own ego and the rest of the world, committing suicide is the only option left. It is not rational. It is not a choice among other possibilites. At the time when someone decides to end their life, it is if they are just really finalising a process that actually occured some time ago.

The hard part is recognising when you might just be playing with ideas (which everyone does at some time or another in their life), and when you cross that line when the ‘possibility’ becomes a more serious notion. When you’re severely depressed, you may not be the best person to judge your own intent.

Mad Dog, it is probably not a good idea to continue ‘playing’ with these ideas by yourself. Get to a doctor, pronto. And in the meantime, take care won’t ya?

22

Note: I’m not depressive, so the following may not apply.

There’s a considerable difference between not wanting to live and wanting not to live. The few times I’ve hit the second state, I’ve always managed to find something (even if it was just a cup of coffee and a cigarette tomorrow) that kept me going.

After Columbine the idea of taking detailed notes about a violent act you might perpetrate in the future has gotten a bad rap, but I’ve sometimes found that just the intellectual challenge of planning a perfect suicide is enough to get you back to a state of engagement with life.

There’s also a Dorothy Parker poem that shows up when I’m near that stage:

Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren’t lawful; Nooses give;
Gas smells awful; You might as well live.

Why would you want to step off this mortal coil when doing so might cause you to miss a gem like that?

I’m not being glib. I’ve done the methodological research and have a plan that you’d hear about should it ever come to that. As depressing (in the non-clinical sense) as it might be, I’ve never understood why people kill themselves when the following factors are taken into account:

  1. The lifespan of the universe.

  2. The lifespan of you if you do.

  3. The lifespan of you if you don’t.

That’s one big ratio.

It’ll all be over soon enough, why not stick around for the ride? Given the amount of time you’ll have not existed and have been dead, a couple more decades or even centuries ain’t much of a sacrifice.

It’s just the world, it kills us all in the end.

In my darkest hours, that was at least one thing to look forward to.

There’s a scene from a Spider Robinson novel that seems appropriate to the OP. “Night of Power”. Not one of his best, but this rings true. Young fellah is feeling suicidal and homicidal and disaffected as anything and he gets introduced to a preacher. Preacher says “You don’t want to live?”, or words to that effect. Young fellah says yeah. Preacher grabs him by the throat and squeezes until young fellah breaks away. “All you had to do was stand still”.

Sometimes your method overtakes your mind. You can’t decide not to do it 320 feet into a 340 foot drop. I suspect that’s the real reason behind a lot of successful suicides.

23

I hear this more and more often and it is true: ** Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. ** Sometimes it is apparently done on impulse and others take a long time planning it. There is also the danger of just toying around with it and putting an end to yourself by accident.

Imagine that someone wants to die because she or he is in great physical pain. The doctor offers a non-addictive medication that will completely relieve the pain. What kind of fool would refuse the pill and choose death.

Clinical depression is often a fatal disease. It is not to be treated lightly. Nor should you think of yourself as weak. This is not a character flaw! It is a disease similar to Parkinson’s but with different symptoms.

The part of your brain that is involved with clinical depression is also the part of the brain that affects decision-making. So don’t trust yourself to make a sound judgment about “to be or not to be.”

For many years I had strong suicidal tendencies. I learned to sort of put myself on automatic and get to a private hospital for help. But with the newer medications I seldom feel the urge.

Clinical depression needs to have a different name. Then maybe people will stop associating it with having the blues, feeling sorry for yourself or just adjusting an attitude.

Please take care!

24

When you come to the realization that no matter what you do it will not get better. At which point suicide is a regrettable, but rational, choice.

Not always.

25

Well, being depressed is a form of insanity, and therefore it is a divorce from reason. When I, now, look back on my depressive periods, I don’t see a fully human face. I see a barely-functional ape meandering through a thick neurochemical haze, incapable of feeling anything outside its thick leathery skin or seeing beyond the end of its pushed-in nose.

I see a tragicomedy played out by a meat machine, sitting and staring at a gun cabinet, keys in hand, utterly defeated by a locking mechanism I, now, could easily manipulate.

But, you see, it wasn’t me. It was a shadow of me, possessed of basic faculties and a physical body but bereft of both sense and emotion. It was Death, the Pitiful and Banal.

So you want to know what it feels like? Nothing. It feels like nothing at all. You don’t have the capacity to feel anything. You are cut off from yourself at the most physical level, a raw wound on the inside surrounding empty sucking vaccuum. It feels like an anesthetized limb, or taking a pencil and hitting it against the table: You get vibrations through the medium, but the true sensation is lost on you.

Is it always worth it to keep living? I don’t know you. I don’t know what you are experiencing, and I don’t know what your life is like. I know I am glad I didn’t ever go through with my plans. The only way I could see suicide being a viable option is if your life has no hope of improvement: The terminally ill qualify, of course, but not all of them, either. Maybe in five years a cure, or an effective treatment, will be developed. Maybe in five months. Maybe in five days. Similarly, fincancial straits could be seen as a reason. Or maybe the market will turn around. The end of a long relationship? People of all ages find love in all places. Suicide is an option, but it is not usually the best one.

Humans are probably unique on the planet Earth in being able to contemplate their own end, let alone deliberately bring it on. But, if we are, we are also unique in being the only species that can change its lot merely by thinking about it hard enough. Thinking about it hard enough to find help. Thinking about it hard enough to break through the vaccuum and reach a human hand.

-Derleth, who always feels alive when it rains.

26

Eh, I beg to differ, Oh Shortening of the Way.

When is a problem ever permanent?

27

I think it depends on his age. Suicide is somewhat romanticized, and I think alot of people ages 17-19 have similiar thoughts about it. It’s not ever a viable option to them, because they are forced to admit that they’d rather exist than not exist, but it’s something that is somewhat glamorous.

Teenage suicide…don’t do it!

28

–And one more thing…

Drugging people out of those feelings might be worse than letting them explore them. I have strong reservations about this Prozac world of ours. But that’s another GD entirely…

29

I totally agree RexDart. Experiencing and exploring life in deep depression is quite amazing, but like everything, if you are unable to move on then some sort of help (pharmacological or otherwise) might be necessary.

30

Shit, that’s an interesting question. I personally haven’t left that “fairly blase” stage, yet. Everytime I think on how nifty it would be to do something to end it all, simply because it would be a end to an apparently pointless, directionless mistake of an existence, I don’t go any further.

Not because I change my mind about life. I don’t, I haven’t. I have momentary patches of relative happiness, some bright sparks of joy, then I get kicked in th’ guts again, and the darkness starts to turn my view to ever-twilight once more. But I don’t actually do th’ deed that would end this. I’ve contemplated it, yeah. Lots of glass around here. Sharp stuff that can cut and let th’ blood flow. But I haven’t. Maybe some part of me still hopes that tomorrow will be better. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t, but I gamble on the positive outcome.

My inner demons, my “You’re just a pile o’ shit” crowd of downers, are a loud crowd, but they ain’t been strong enough to bring me all th’ way down. Not yet. They’ve had a lot of tries.

I guess, one aspect, is that some folks have very strong “demons” within them, and not a lot of dawn t’ hope for. I don’t think I’m “fairly blase”, though. I’m just waiting until I go naturally, I guess, Or by some freak accident I wasn’t aware would happen. One thing I do think about is, while I have no family who love me, I have a lot of friends that would be gutted if suddenly I gave my permanent goodbye. I keep looking for that dawn for them, I live for them. I don’t think I’ve ever lived for myself. Probably a good thing. Keeps me breathin’.

Oh, and AcidKid – funny is good in the right places. This ain’t one of 'em.

31

From my experience, age tend to take care of most of that.

17 yr old ----------> hates the world, thinks everyone is a “phony”

20 yr old ----------> has discovered what he likes about the world, discovered that everyone else is doing the same, is busy looking for as much of what he likes as possible

I don’t think prolonged periods of real depression occur that frequently outside of the “moody teenager” syndrome. I’ve known people who faced outstandingly traumatic hardships, loss of both parents within a single year for instance. They overcome it, they find what they still love about life and live it. That doesn’t mean they don’t feel down occasionally, but they do what we all do and bury it and move on, because we’re through with the past. I can’t help but think that a goodly portion of the people who dwell in depression are just looking for cheap sympathy, especially if they trumpet their depression from the rooftops. Now, a few people might genuinely have a biochemical problem with getting out of a funk, and I don’t mind seeing those people get a helping hand. Heck, that’s what we have those professionals around for. But anyone who blabs about his/her depressed condition incessantly is a sympathy whore more often than not, and doesn’t really need help in the first place. We all have bad days/weeks/months/years, and I understand the desire to gripe a little…but some people make a career out of it, and I think those are the people who need help the least.

32

On reading your post, RexDart, I concur that there are some who “incessantly” speak of their depression, for the sake of attention. But for everyone one of those, there are many more who suffer in silence, and not just because of an “age thing”.

Depression, like all else in the mental health field, has a stigma. I speak out about my own depression out of honesty and self-realisation from two years ago, and because sometimes I don’t give a crap about being looked on as weak, freakish, or even a “creep-out”. They are my feelings, my mixed up chemistry, they’re part of me. How I deal with them is the main thing – I live, and I continue to work in the community. That’s how I deal.

33

I suffer from SAD, which means, among other things, that I often get pretty depressed around this time of year. It may sound silly, but I’ve dealt with it by making a firm suicide plan. If I decide I really want to die, I’ll get in my car, drive to the Pacific Ocean, walk out into the surf and keep swimming. The catch is, of course, that it’s a long drive, some of it through sunny and beautiful places, and I’m banking that if I ever start the trip, the change of scenery and restful drive will have me changing my mind before I ever actually dive into the water.

So, am I crazy?

34

I have deleted links in AcidKid’s posts, because suicide is illegal in most states. We do not permit links to illegal activities.

I am also hereby serving Official Warning to AcidKid – this is a double infraction of the rules, first by posting links to sites that encourage illegal activity, and second by being a jerk. “It’s witty” is not an excuse for a cruel comment to someone who is in emotional turmoil. There is a difference between wit and sheer meanness. Wit would have been “It’s NOT a viable option” if you wanted to pun on “viable.” What you said, and your follow ups, are simply nasty… and nasty, IMHO, is one of the symptoms of “being a jerk.” Next infraction is a bannable offense.

Mad Dog 20/20: Some people have offered very sound advice here, seek professional help. Depression is often curable by medication, and is helped by talk-therapy. I like Fisher’s comments: suicide may stop depression, but it also stops everything else, like the beauty of a sunset or having fun with friends or playing with a pet or breathing fresh clean air on a beautiful night under the stars. Seek professional help, please.

35

Thanks for the insight Doctor Shithead. Oh wait, you’re not a doctor? Then shut the fuck up about medical conditions that you know jack-shit about.

Here’s some info. about Depression, written by medical professionals.

36

I don’t see how anything you posted negates anything I said, Homebrew, so why your namecalling? IMHO, there are alot of people who think they have a medical depression who don’t. I took Psych 1, which is good enough to recognize that what you posted is just the bare basics that I’ve seen before. It’s somewhat popular for people taking that class to suddenly decide that they have one of those disorders, especially the wishy-washy dysthymia, which is so nebulously defined.

Look, are you familiar with the fact that young med students often think they have a disease they learn about, they overanalyze themselves and concoct illusory diseases for themselves? Same thing for young 18 yr olds in a college classroom in psychology. I never said that everyone was faking it, just that some people are, and that some of those are faking it to gain sympathy. I also said that I suspected that genuine depression was less frequent than is commonly believed. How is any of what I said incorrect, and how does the Psych 1 cut-n-paste job you did there change any of that? If you wanted to refute that, you would of posted statistics on actual, physician-diagnosed depressions, how often they occur, etc.

37

I’m going to chime in with RexDart here and amplify:

Hey everyone - ease of the medical solutions, ok?

I agree that /therapy/ of some kind is often helpful, but immediately suggesting drugs is . . . extremely disturbing.

While I could accept that some situations can be ameliorated by pharmaceuticals, unless anyone speaking here is a licensed Doctor of Medicine, let alone a practicing Psychologist or Psychiatrist, they have no business suggesting that drugs are the solution to Maddog’s problem. Clearly there /are/ solutions (besides suicide), and he should be steered towards them.

The concept that every problem can be quantified as a medical one and drugged is why we have Ritalin children.

38

I’ll admit my initial response was unnecessarily harsh. I apologize for that. But as an over 30 adult who is in a battle with major depression, you glib comments about “‘moody teenager’ syndrome” came accross as rather dismissive of the battle that I, and several other adult posters on this board deal with.

Furthermore, you comments about “Drugging people out of those feelings might be worse than letting them explore them” belie a complete lack of understanding of what anti-depressants do and how they’re prescribed. How is it better to let someone wallow in pain and misery when a simple drug can even out a chemical imbalance in their brain and let them feel something other than the despair again? Additionally, when prescribing anti-depressants, most doctors also suggest, or even require, the patient to seek psychological counseling.

Simply telling someone who is depressed to “Get over it” doesn’t work. Trust me, most of us would if we could. For me going to counseling has been enough to help without drugs. For some, the drugs are necessary to give them the ability to “get over it.”

39

Actually, I do think sucide can be both an option and a personal right given certain exteme circumstances.
Having watched one parent died from cancer and another from Alzheimer’s, I believe that I would rather die painlessly from a drug overdose than go through what either of them did.
I prefer quality over quantity. YMMV.

40

Mad Dog, I was there very, very recently. To be perfectly honest, the only reason I’m still alive is my atheism - if I’d believed in any sort of “afterlife” I’d be gone. I was quite prepared for any sort of “god” to send me straight to hell, because hell would have been an improvement.

“How” it happens is probably very different from person to person, so I can only try to tell you my experience. I was past “depression” and into “complete and total despair” - what I’ve just learned is called “existential depression”. Combine that with enormous emotional pain and you can find yourself staring that option right in the eye. Willing to do anything to stop the pain.

Of course, what I was looking for was relief from the pain - and if I were dead, I wouldn’t feel anything, including relief. Realizing that at least made me hesitate and wrestle with the idea instead of doing something about it. What really stopped me, though, was that an opportunity to do something appeared, and I did it - I still have to struggle through the consequences of that, but at least it was, in a way, a new beginning.

I think that is the key to getting through those times - do something, take some kind of action, make a change of some kind - it may be something as simple as going for a walk, or something as major (and cathartic) as setting your car on fire (I know someone who did that, and yes, it turned him around.) If you look at the advice already given, you’ll see that it mostly consists of suggestions to do something - for a very good reason: it works, at least temporarily.

I think FisherQueen’s solution is absolutely brilliant, because it contains so many elements of suicide prevention advice. One thing that often helps is to make a “contract” of sorts - FisherQueen has made a contract with herself that she will only commit suicide in this one way, and her requirements for committing the act force her through experiences that will almost certainly change her mind before she goes that far.

If you go into therapy and admit that you are suicidal, often your therapist will ask you to enter into a “contract” with them - that you will not kill yourself without discussing it with them first. If you aren’t in therapy (please, please try it) but you have someone else you have confided in, make your contract with them, and stick to it!

And, before anyone adds me to their list of people to keep a wary eye on, I am on medication and in therapy, so I’ll be okay. I’m not dancing on the edge any longer. :slight_smile: