How Does "Suicide" Work???

FWIW, not all suicide stems from clinical depresssion. While this may not relate to the OP, it does to certain posts in this thread.

According to this CDC page:

That means 86% of American suicides in 1999 were well past the “moody teenager” years.

Sometimes pain doesn’t come in the form of a trauma that mostly heals in a few years. Sometimes it stays for decades. Two quick stories:

I was suicidal at 15. Not a soul knew, and I was deadly serious. I was not clinically depressed. But loneliness and isolation were pretty much all I’d known since the age of 6, and it showed no signs of abating. So in the fall of my sixteenth year, as the chill continued, I slowly gathered my thoughts about suicide, because I just couldn’t deal with the loneliness much longer. This was not going to be a ‘cry for help’ suicide attempt; I was more afraid of failing, and having to face the ridicule of classmates, than I was afraid of death.

Fortunately, a miracle occurred before the inner discussion drew to a close, so I’m still here. But absent that miracle, I believe I was at most a few months away from ending my life.

An acquaintance, the younger brother of a close friend, committed suicide at 39. I’ve spoken about him before in suicide threads. I have no idea whether he was clinically depressed. His suicide note made it clear that he’d felt alone and isolated for many years.

His sister, who had been diagnosed as clinically depressed, and seemingly did make a career out of reaching out to others in her dark moments - his sister, my friend, is alive, despite traveling a much rockier road than I have. And whenever I think about it, I thank the Lord for every time she put aside her pride and called me in the middle of the night when she desperately needed someone to reach out to. She has long since made it through those times, fortunately.

She and her family believe that her brother saw the resulting melodrama, and resolved not to be that sort of burden on others. At any rate, he didn’t let a soul know, beforehand, that he was in any danger. And he is dead.

You can draw your own conclusions, and I know I’m drawing one from a too-small sample. But in retrospect, I think there’s something to be said for reaching out to friends, and being a bit of a burden on them. Sometimes the darkness of depression - or even the extremity of real life - stays around for years. And sometimes you need all the help you can get from every friend you have, just to stay around and make it through a long-term ‘temporary’ problem.

If someone is suicidal, clinically depressed or no, I hope they blab incessantly about it, that they make a career out of it. That they get professional help, and the emotional support of family and friends, even if involuntarily and grudgingly. Because the hole it will leave in the lives of family and friends if they suicide will dwarf the burden that they are while alive. Trust me on this one, please.

Next time, hit enter a few times after the sentence. That way I won’t freak out when you sign with your username.

Thanks

Wow, thanks to all who took the time to talk to me. Work is crazy at the moment, so I’ll read the whole thread on my way home tonight and try to respond to things tomorrow.

I saw a Dr. this morning (regular MD). Didn’t offer much except medication. I’ve been down the Paxil/Zoloft/Effexor route before, and thanks very much, but I’ll pass. Anti-dpressentants, and SSRI’s in particular, take away from me more than they give, and I just can’t stand feeling that way. I have a REALLY hard time buying into the therapy/mental health bit, but ultimately that is probably my best bet. We’ll see.

Like I said in my OP, I’m not on my way out right yet. I’m just having feelings that are very hard to explain to myself. The whole concept is rather disturbing, yet sort of fascinating at the same time. I was interested in other’s opinions, and I’m grateful you’ve all shared.

Thank you. More tomorrow…

My father killed himself and I found him. I was three years old.

The woman I knew I would be with for the rest of my life fell in love with someone else after our 16 years together. I died inside. I had her and two wonderful kids and I knew the only way to take care of things would be if I died.

You see neither worked, her or the new hubby to be. If I die they get close to $300K. My kids will still go to college.

I figured how to do it. I knew how it could be done so the money would be paid and there would be no mess for some poor stranger to clean up.

Obviously I didn’t do it. I can’t put my kids through that. I got over it. I went on.

My daughter drowned. Talk about depression! I am still alive. I will not kill myself.

Now I know the pain that my suicide would have caused from two different points of view.

I won’t shine your ass with “the sun will rise again tomorrow”. The sun will rise and will forever, we don’t count. But someone will miss you if you are gone even if you don’t know it. And that is even more sad.

So. “Pack up your troubles in the old kick bag and smile, smile, smile”… ?

Talk to friends.

Be good, and talk to us all later, and for a long time.

Mad Dog, maybe this is relevent, perhaps not. At anyrate, yours, and the other posters skepticism of drugs is well founded in my opinion. When my wife developed migrains, she went through the laundry list of meds that were available for that ailment, plus saw many different docs. Some made her worse, some made her nuts, all made her problem a little worse in some way or another. Then she went to the public library, and checked out a book on headaches. Long story short, she was able to treat herself, quite effectively I might add, through nothing more than dietary change, some simple lifestyle change, minor massage points and for when it came on strong, the help of otc pain relief.

Point is, this showed us that miracle meds aren’t usually all that, as many have pointed out, and I suspect you already know. Perhaps the best way is just simply get back to basics. Maybe check out some material on natural ways to fight depression.

Maybe this is relevent, maybe not, but I thought I’d throw it out there FWIW.

I still say that your thoughts fo entertaining suicide is rather alarming. When you couple this with your depression, the increased frequency of these thoughts, and what is, IMO, an outreach for help (your post), this adds up to a serious situation. Despite what was posted by others, I do not see this as “no big deal”.

Your post was one big red flag, and also a big step in the right direction - talking about it. You should continue that road.

Good luck.

BTW…

If talking helps, or typing, as it were, there are some 30,000 members of this board, the vast majority of which are very good people, who listen well and have experiences in life that run the spectrum of our existences.

I would recommend another forum, though. :wink:

If my response seemed flippant I’m sorry. I agree with Chandeleur and everyone else who suggests to you “find help”. You get just one chance at this, make it count, make it mean something.

If my response seemed flippant I’m sorry. I agree with Chandeleur and everyone else who suggests to you “find help”. You get just one chance at this, make it count, make it mean something.

it’s called life

IMO the logic of that is not quite accurate, since there is not a (as far as I was able to tell from the website) proportional number of people in each age group (17 years, 18, 19, etc) committing suicide. However, the notion that three magical years is all it takes to get over teen angst/suicidal feelings is absolute horseshit. What did it for me, personally, was a combination of medication, therapy and meeting B. YMMV, of course, RT, as I don’t expect you were as taken by her as I was:D

Slightly change a few facts and you’re me. Whoda thunkit?:wink: But seriously now. My sister, she tells me, would now be dead (or have made her best go at it) were it not for the fact that when she was in 4th grade or so she thought she’d go to Hell if she killed herself.

That is the only thing that prevented her from it.

Similar case here. Summer break happened at a most opportune time … or my thoughts began too late, or something. Were it not for the treatment I got that summer I can’t honestly say I’d know any of you.

[/quote]
She and her family believe that her brother saw the resulting melodrama, and resolved not to be that sort of burden on others. At any rate, he didn’t let a soul know, beforehand, that he was in any danger. And he is dead.
[/quote]

I think I’m about halfway between your friend and her brother. If I’d had parents who didn’t care or who thought I was being overdramatic or told me it was my fault or otherwise hadn’t been supportive, … well, you can probably finish that sentence for yourself, RT.

Let’s look at it this way:

Your friend did what she thought might help her, and she’s alive. There seems to be a fairly strong correlation between her reaching out and her being alive; conversely, there seems again to be a fairly strong correlation between her brother not doing that and killing himself.

Whether it’s the aspect of asking for help or whatever, I think the fact that she cared enough about herself to put aside pride or whatnot is part of what helped her. I don’t think we know enough about her brother to say he didn’t seek out help, as you yourself said in not so many words, IIRC. But in the end, it worked, so why question it?:slight_smile: (this is not meant as a strawman but to emphasize a point I made earlier: whatever works for you is what you should do).

Indeed. And I think that’s why it’s a good idea that we’ve had people posting about how their lives seem, to them, to be utterly wretched. While I certainly am not celebrating their misfortune, the fact that they can go somewhere to get help, or rant, or whatever, has to be of such enormous help. It would seem to me, anyway. True, we do get some people who are less than helpful, but … I’d like to think overall, for each person, it helps. But maybe that’s just me trying to do for just one person what a small group of people helped me do.

Not every person who ever entertains a thought of ‘leaving the campground’ needs to go to a doctor and be medicated.

In fact, I’d be surprised if less than 50% of the population had the thought cross their minds at least once in their lifetimes.

People think about and consider a lot of things they wouldn’t ever do. Personally, I have thought about how to get away with a bank robbery, how to become a mercenary, what it’d feel like to amputate a limb, and what’d be the least painful way to commit suicide.

None of those are things I would ever actually do in reality, and none of them are definite indicators of a need for a psychiatrist and drugs.

Human beings have big imaginations, wild and sometimes scary fantasies. Sometimes morbid thoughts a person has no intention of ever carrying out are not necessarily an indication that they need to be on medication.

I would agree. But when you couple these thoughts with: a) increased frequency, b) depression, and c) cries for help/outreaches such as the OP, it’s time to go see the doc.

I didn’t really see that as a ‘cry for help’. I saw it as someone discussing something that causes other people to respond ‘see a doctor’ ‘get medicated’.

I half-expect someone to pop in here and say ‘Two grammes of soma a day keeps the bad thoughts away’.*

Is it really the state of the world now that every discussion of something that’s not bright, cheery, happy or otherwise upbeat is a ‘cry for help’?
*Sorry Aldous.

Mad Dog 20/20, how are things going now?

Feelings of depression do change into happier feelings even though at the worst point it can seem like things never will get better. As for medicine, it takes some time to “kick in” but the right medicine can be very benifical.

catsix, I thought the same thing until I started this thread.

suicide is like God… in fact, they represent the same thing… death. i think suicide to the suicidal person represents the ultimate freedom… like heaven to the religious person. once you have no restrictions, nothing to stop you from seriously contemplating it then it can easily become the answer to all your questions. once a person has reached that point it’s got to be very hard to convince them that suicide is not the ultimate solution to their problems, no matter how much prozac you feed them.

If we didn’t have suicide as an option the pain would be worse. The thought of killing yourself is a temporary relief and a sense of freedom in that you know there is at least one way out, one escape from your suffering. And part of that escape is thinking about it and the consequences it would have on others, yet not doing it. Actually I think some people are addicted to thinking about and planning their suicide.

We need to have the freedom to think and talk about suicide. Those who talk about their suicidal feelings are much less likely to follow through with the action. Unfortunately most people get scared and can’t handle when someone needs to talk, whether it be here in public or one on one.

Being told to seek professional help is good advice but it can also be a way of telling someone to shut up.


The Mythology of Suicide

Myth:People who talk about killing themselves rarely commit suicide.
Fact:Most people who commit suicide have given some verbal clues or warning of their intention.

MythThe tendency toward suicide is inherited and passed from generation to generation.
Fact:Although suicidal behavior does tend to run in families, it does not appear to be transmitted genetically.

Myth:The suicidal person wants to die and feels that there is no turning back.
Fact: Suicidal people are usually ambivalent about dying and frequently will seek help immediately after attempting the harm themselves.

Myth:All suicidal people are deeply depressed.
Fact:Although depression is often closely associated with suicidal feelings, not all people who kill themselves are obviously depressed. In fact some suicidal people appear to be happier than they’ve been in years because they have decided to “resolve” all of their problems by killing themselves. Also, people who are extremely depressed usually do not have the energy to kill themselves.

Myth:There is no correlation between alcoholism and suicide.
Fact:Alcoholism and suicide often go hand in hand. Alcoholics are prodded to suicidal behavior and even people who don’t normally drink will often ingest alcohol shortly before killing themselves.

Myth:Suicidal people are mentally ill.
Fact:Although many suicidal people are depressed and distraught, most could not be diagnosed as mentally ill; perhaps only about 25 percent of them are actually psychotic.

Myth:Once someone attempts suicide, that person will always entertain thoughts of suicide.
Fact:Most people who are suicidal are so for only a very brief period once in their lives. If the person receives the proper support and assistance, he/she will probably never be suicidal again. Only about 10 percent of the people who attempt later kill themselves.

Myth:If you ask someone about their suicidal intentions, you will only encourage them to kill themselves.
Fact:Actually the opposite is true. Asking someone directly about their suicidal intentions will often lower their anxiety level and act as a deterrent to suicidal behavior by encouraging the ventilation of pent-up emotions through a frank discussion of his problems.

Myth:Suicide is quite common among the lower class.
Fact:Suicide crosses all socioeconomic distinctions and no one class is more susceptible to it than another.

Myth:Suicidal people rarely seek medical attention.
Fact:Research has consistently shown that about 75 percent of suicidal people will visit a physician within the month before they kill themselves.
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/research/suicidefaq.cfm

Hmm, I’m thinking about this whole medication thing. If someone has some valid reasons for wanting not to live…what is medication going to do? Erase logic? Make the world a bit rosier? Put me into a stuper that I forget how to analyze the world? As I look into my future, I see a big ol’ pit. Work, Eat, Work, Sleep, Breed, Work Harder, Eat, Sleep-less, Work, Eat, Sleep. Ok, some constants that I see. Then, there are those close to me. Great people, the whole lot. However, I am one of those people who has everyone coming at them at every conceivable angle. Advice, coaching, work-wife, marriage counselor, pity-party thrower…like Angelou says-each taking a bit of me with them, a bit off the ear, a nip of the toe, etc. Finding myself analysing these people and realizing that when I speak they are really only waiting for a pause, a cue for them to hijack conversations to suit their own needs. Have I told people that I’ve thought of suicide-Yep. 4 of them as a matter of fact. What did I get? Hijack about another suicide in their circle of friends, 2 blow-offs and one person that saw what I saw, felt sympathy for me, but couldn’t disagree with my logic. I am one of those people who can talk someone into anything. I’ve convinced people there was no god. I say wretched things to people with faith…because I am angry with them for seeing things so easily or being so easily fooled. God will help me. God Gave this to me. OK, what makes you so different? Why didn’t God save the children who were abused today? Ugh.

Anyway, the point of this is, I see the world, and I don’t like it. All we seem to do act in our selfish ways like a bunch of monkeys competing for resources. We shroud ourselves in our economic status, religious affiliations, material obsessions, gossip and alienation in order to belong. Don’t I sound fun to be around? The real kick in the ass is…people freakin’ love me. I am a shining example of what to do. I’ve overcome a difficult family life. I have a quasi-successful career, a nice home, some great dogs and a husband that should, for all intents and purposes be married to a lovely stable woman…but he got me instead. I help people through all their issues, give them good advice, steer them away from emotionally damaging relationships, treat them with respect (except when they throw the Big Guy at me) and what do I get? Nada. No one has ever asked me how I am doing. No one, really, cares about me. Now that may sound a bit whine-ish and immature, but it is my history. I live under a veil of guilt which stems from my mother. Everything was a disappointment. Classic Achievement Anxiety…performance=love. Performance based acceptance I think they call it. I am a freaking chameleon. Everything to everyone. And it is VERY taxing. No one gets everything they want from me and they lay on the guilt. Living with this incredible sense of entitlement…Essentially I am living a lie with nary a clue as to who my genuine self is.

Is there a pill that will make people self-less? Or insert a self into me?

So I finally decide to go see a therapist when I made my escape plan. For the mods sake, I won’t include it, but it is bullet-proof (pardon the pun). Tried to find one that is an atheist (non-existant in the NW, I think) or one that doesn’t somehow include essential oils and gongs. Go talk to him. Cry a bit. Realize that I’m paying 90/hour for absolutely no advice. Describe my feelings of despair, hopelessness, that I have no faith in god or man, smoke way too much, that I can’t imagine my life being in any way better with any factors factored in. Money won’t help…although perhaps if I pay people they will actually listen and not change the subject or act like you are attacking them personally. And I’m also sitting there thinking that this guy is just like all the rest. If he wasn’t paid to listen, he’d probably be asking my advice on his website–which he did in our 2nd session. A friend of mine is a therapist and she is a mess-married to an alcoholic who’s abusive her co-therapist is a raging vegan loon with no social skills. They just don’t know what to do with me either. i have no “problems” to solve. Nothing to relate to but some deeply routed thoughts that are always there in every case.

Funny thing is, can’t seem to think of any reason to stick around. An injection of happiness now and then is a bit too brief in the long-run. So, I guess, why bother trying.

So what now, Eat, Work or Sleep?

I realize that things are not terrible. There are people way worse off then me…but somehow they seem to have some light at the end of the tunnel. Can fill in the sentence: Things will get better when_________.

Anyway, that’s my 2 pence on how it works.

haha… beautiful… it works that way everywhere…

The OP has already explored the drug route it seems:

[Intravenous cocaine](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2909364#post
2909364)

Paxil

IV cocaine for the Young and Reckless – Fixed Phil’s link.