How easily do dropped handguns fire? (The Dancing FBI Agent)

[jz78817]

@septimus

If I understand this correctly, not only did he accidentally pull the trigger, but he already had a round in the chamber.

why do you find this surprising?

[Ashtura]

@septimus

If I understand this correctly, not only did he accidentally pull the trigger, but he already had a round in the chamber.

I’m pretty sure this is how a Glock works. Other safety-less uncocked guns would require considerable trigger pressure to fire, no?

It sounds like this FBI agent was ready to fight al-Qaeda at a moment’s notice, with a round already in the chamber and everything. We should be grateful for his vigilance?

I’m pretty sure most law enforcement keep a round in the chamber at all times. Glocks have a consistent trigger pull with every shot too.

I don’t think he should have had a round in the chamber in this particular instance, but I think his dumbest mistake was doing backflips with a gun tucked in the back of his pants.

[MikeF]

In my experience (30+ years law enforcement experience) a modern handgun will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. Dropping a gun should not cause it to discharge. There may be some extremely rare exceptions to this. I believe that he put his finger on the trigger when he picked it up and pulled it negligently. If one is going to carry a concealed handgun it must be in a secure holster, obviously not the case here.

[Chimera]

@JRDelirious

Some law enforcement agencies, most notoriously NYPD, issue their sidearms with a trigger that takes extra effort to pull. This does create a problem with accuracy and quick reactions

That’s why I got rid of my S&W DA .40. Ridiculously long trigger pull that became a bit too stiff when it hit the breakpoint. Pretty much had to pull the trigger to that point, then aim and hope I didn’t pull the gun in one direction or another through the break. No way I would have wanted to depend on that thing in an emergency.

[bob_2]

@Ashtura

I’ve been researching buying a pistol. The Glock appeals to me, but I don’t like that it doesn’t have an external safety for this very reason (and others would like it for this precisely this reason - hitting a button in a high stress situation is one more step). It’s gonna be a lot harder for a kid to grab his mom’s gun out of her purse and kill her in Walmart if it has an external safely though.

I love that the Sherrif says “The shooting appears to be accidental.” I think that the 2yo kid had it all planned and just made it look like an accident.

I also note that in the original clip, the FBI guy slopes off, rather than rushing over to help the person he shot. He looked just like a kid… “Who - me?” as he tucked the gun back in his pants.

[markn_1]

@Ashtura

I don’t think he should have had a round in the chamber in this particular instance, but I think his dumbest mistake was doing backflips with a gun tucked in the back of his pants.

Whoa, what? I can’t see the video right now, but did he really have it tucked in his pants? Why? Don’t FBI agents have holsters?

[carnivorousplant]

Is he required to be armed when off duty?

[Malthus]

@JRDelirious

Some law enforcement agencies, most notoriously NYPD, issue their sidearms with a trigger that takes extra effort to pull. This does create a problem with accuracy and quick reactions, and is no substitute for the basic “keep finger off the trigger until really trying to shoot” safety principle.

As observed, the weapon did not go off from the drop, so the safeties worked. Operator carelessness when grabbing for the gun was the cause of the discharge.
Then again, he sould not have needed to grab for it in the first place.

Yeah, I find the ‘pulled the trigger while picking it up’ part even more negligent than the ‘dropped pistol while doing backflips’ part. It’s just so basic to gun safety not to do that.

[Ashtura]

@markn_1

Whoa, what? I can’t see the video right now, but did he really have it tucked in his pants? Why? Don’t FBI agents have holsters?

It’s kind of hard to tell, but it definitely looks like it came out the back of his pants. He may have a holster there, but if he did it was in the buttcrack area (which is unusual)

[muldoonthief]

@carnivorousplant

Is he required to be armed when off duty?

According to this article, it’s up to the agent whether they carry or not off-duty.

And honestly, how could a requirement to always be armed off-duty be realistic? LEOs have actual lives at times. Can they never have a few drinks off duty, or go to the beach, or anything like that?

According to this article the bar he was in has rules against carrying firearms on premises.

[Patch]

@Ashtura

It’s kind of hard to tell, but it definitely looks like it came out the back of his pants. He may have a holster there, but if he did it was in the buttcrack area (which is unusual)

Small of the back (s.o.b.) holsters are designed for that area, typically for backup guns.

[Patch]

@chappachula

it seems not just “less-than-wise”—It seems pretty damn stupid and dangerous, for this situation. Why keep a round chambered?

I always keep a round chambered when I carry as I can’t guarantee I’ll have both hands free to manipulate the slide. You also don’t want to be in a high-stress situation, draw your gun, and fumble the slide and cause a malfunction.

[Leo_Bloom]

On a side note, why does USA today obscure his face?

[Leo_Bloom]

@muldoonthief

…
According to this article the bar he was in has rules against carrying firearms on premises.

Surely this cannot be upheld tout court with LEOs. On the other hand, I believe “normal” LEOs traveling must turn over their weapons during a civilian air flight.

[septimus]

@Orwell

Again, it is common and expected to have a round in the chamber. It’s standard procedure. If I have a loaded gun - whether for hunting, target shooting or self-defense - there is a round in the chamber. There are exceptions, like unloading the chamber to cross a fence while hunting, but if I’m walking around hunting, there is a round in the chamber.

And what was he hunting? Flip-dancing terrorists?

I suppose I’ve proven my gun ignorance, but in hindsight I hope we can agree I’m less ignorant than this FBI agent. The conjunction of flip-dancing with an unsecured pistol and having a round in its chamber was wrong — I hope we can agree on that.

The “need” to have one’s Glock ready to fire without cocking is lost on me. (Yes, yes, I understand the saved second has a one-in-a-billion chance of saving your life. But is it contrary to Second Amendment principles to include accidental discharges in the cost-benefit analysis?)

You’re all welcome to come mug me in Thailand! Because if/when I get my Glock I will not be carrying it around with a round in the chamber!

[Leo_Bloom]

@septimus

… (Yes, yes, I understand the saved second has a one-in-a-billion chance of saving your life. But is it contrary to Second Amendment principles to include accidental discharges in the cost-benefit analysis?)…

• screeching needle on record sound * *thread heads off cliff *

[jz78817]

@septimus

And what was he hunting? Flip-dancing terrorists?

I suppose I’ve proven my gun ignorance, but in hindsight I hope we can agree I’m less ignorant than this FBI agent. The conjunction of flip-dancing with an unsecured pistol and having a round in its chamber was wrong — I hope we can agree on that.

stop emphasizing “having a round in its chamber.” it doesn’t enhance your point nor make you right.

every (armed) police officer, every (armed) federal agent, every (armed) service person, and every (armed) CPL holder carries with a round in the chamber.

racking the slide to show the bad guy that you mean business may look cool in the movies, but that’s not how things really work.

[rat_avatar]

It is quite clearly a negligent discharge and not a mechanical malfunction.

Like trying to catch a falling knife our monkey brains are not good at fine motor control when trying to act that quickly.

Or like learning to skateboard or ski, where one has to modify normal reflex actions to avoid injury.

Modern firearms have several methods to avoid firing when dropped, but the fact that it didn’t fire until he grasp him excludes the possibility of the drop being the cause.

While I feel bad for him he deserves to be held responsible for this negligence.

[Lemur866]

This wasn’t an accidental discharge. This was a negligent discharge.

Also, when your toddler pulls your gun out of your purse and shoots you in the face? That’s not an accident either.

[k9bfriender]

@jz78817

stop emphasizing “having a round in its chamber.” it doesn’t enhance your point nor make you right.

every (armed) police officer, every (armed) federal agent, every (armed) service person, and every (armed) CPL holder carries with a round in the chamber.

racking the slide to show the bad guy that you mean business may look cool in the movies, but that’s not how things really work.

Do they carry that way while not on duty? While in a club? While dancing? While doing a back flip?

Is there anything at all that this agent did wrong, or was it really the guy who got shot who is at fault for being in the way of an FBI agent’s justified discharge?