Failing to follow through on threats is a bad idea in general. If your kids know that you only get pissed off enough to enforce the consequence every fifth time or so that they do something wrong, well, wa-hey! Four free times to do it until we get in trouble! (Or whatever.)
He claims it didn’t happen. He thinks all of his kids–all four of us–just made the story up. Another reason why I think that during that time period, he just wasn’t right upstairs.
But the truth is that while laying in bed one night while I was in college, I had a flashback to that scene and suddenly burst into tears. Because it was my fault it happened, you see. If I hadn’t stolen that Dorito, none of it would have happened. So not only was my sister punished, but I was too. If he had just told her to stop screaming over a damn Dorito, the incident would have been lost forever in my mind.
I don’t think we were abused, although I’m sure an outsider would think so. However, I don’t see how a kid who WAS physical abused could grow up and ever use corporal punishment. I know there would just be too many flashbacks and worries about losing control for me to allow myself to “go there.”
Children aren’t pigeons. As individuals, they aren’t going to have statistically predictable reactions to corporal punishment. While my parents used it, sparingly, both of them decided to stop before my brothers and I were too old of it.
For my mom, it was that it simply didn’t work with my older brother - he clammed up and hated her for a week. Me? I sobbed and whimpered and stuck to her for days after, desperate for reassurance. My younger brother would shrug it off.
For my dad, it was that he was so big, angry, and scary, he terrified us. The last time he spanked us - all three of us had earned it - by the time he got to my younger brother, the little guy was shaking all over. Dad decided he didn’t want his children to be frightened of him and never spanked us again.
As a teacher, there have been times when I wished I could have hauled off and smacked a kid - because they were endangering themselves or others, because they were damaging school property, because they were doing their level best to disrupt my teaching. That’s not the answer though. Satisfying as it might be for me (as if I weren’t going to get my butt kicked right back), it wouldn’t exactly build a rapport with the student, and it wouldn’t help them develop the moral compass necessary to make healthy decisions.
That’s where the parents come in, and yes, some of them have carried through with corporal punishment at home. Half the time, I got back a student who understood they would behave, and half the time, I got back a student who was terrified if they thought I looked at them funny. Again, not conducive to learning.
It’s been my opinion that hitting children is more likely to make them angry and violent than to make them well behaved.
Wikepedia has a fairly well cited article discussing this debate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home#Differing_views_about_parental_spanking
There’s not much real support for spanking, and a quite a bit of support against it. The Western Medical establishment seems to be rather against it. Quoting from the article:
"The Canadian Pediatrics Society policy on corporal punishment states “The Psychosocial Paediatrics Committee of the Canadian Paediatric Society has carefully reviewed the available research in the controversial area of disciplinary spanking (7-15)… The research that is available supports the position that spanking and other forms of physical punishment are associated with negative child outcomes. The Canadian Paediatric Society, therefore, recommends that physicians strongly discourage disciplinary spanking and all other forms of physical punishment”.[55]
In the United Kingdom, the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health and the Royal College of Psychiatrists have both called for a complete ban on all corporal punishment, stating “We believe it is both wrong and impracticable to seek to define acceptable forms of corporal punishment of children. Such an exercise is unjust. Hitting children is a lesson in bad behaviour”.[56] and that “it is never appropriate to hit or beat children”.[57]
The Australian Psychological Society holds that physical punishment of children should not be used as it has very limited capacity to deter unwanted behavior, does not teach alternative desirable behavior, often promotes further undesirable behaviors such as defiance and attachment to “delinquent” peer groups, and encourages an acceptance of aggression and violence as acceptable responses to conflicts and problems.[58]
The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) in an official policy statement[54] (reaffirmed in 2004) states that “Corporal punishment is of limited effectiveness and has potentially deleterious side effects.” The AAP recommends that parents be “encouraged and assisted in the development of methods other than spanking for managing undesired behavior”. In particular, the AAP believes that any corporal punishment methods other than open-hand spanking on the buttocks or extremities “are unacceptable” and “should never be used”. The policy statement points out, summarizing several studies, that “The more children are spanked, the more anger they report as adults, the more likely they are to spank their own children, the more likely they are to approve of hitting a spouse, and the more marital conflict they experience as adults.”[49] Spanking has been associated with higher rates of physical aggression, more substance abuse, and increased risk of crime and violence when used with older children and adolescents.[50]"
So in summary, corporal punishment isn’t more effective than other forms of discipline, and it can seriously fuck your kid up mentally. So don’t do it.
See, my dad would have called you a pussy. The only reaction I ever had to being hit was to hit back. It seems to me like you don’t understand that you can instill discipline in someone without beating them. The American military has flogged anyone in 150 years, and they still seem like a well disciplined bunch to me.
Unrelated, but am I the only one who thinks spanking has, well, inherent sexual connotations? I mean, I can slap someone on the cheek, or kiss them there (face cheek, not butt cheek), and it doesn’t really have sexual connotations. But if I slapped someone on the ass, they’re going to assume I’m sexually attracted to them. Spanking a child just seems really creepy to me.
Spanking little kids? Yes, I hope you are the only one.
The fourth sentence of my previous post should read, “The American military has not flogged anyone in 150 years, and they still seem like a well disciplined bunch to me.”
The fourth sentence of my previous post should read, “The American military has not flogged anyone in 150 years, and they still seem like a well disciplined bunch to me.”
That’s my point, it’s creepy to spank kids because I think spanking is sexual. What part of that didn’t you get?
There’s nothing particularly sexual about a hug or a punch in the face. I do those things to lots of different people, including men and relatives. But, I only spank my girlfriend. If I came up to you and slapped your face, you’d probably think, “Oh, he must not like me.” If I came up to you and slapped your ass, you’d probably think, “Oh, he must really like me.”
Sorry, about the reposts people. My computer was spazzing out for a minute there.
Saying that spanking a child must be sexual because you only do it with adults in a sexual context is like saying that changing a child’s diaper must be sexual because you touch the child’s genitals during this activity, and you only touch adults’ genitals in a sexual context. Just, no.
That said, I don’t really support spanking, although I’m not really on the warpath about it either. I mean, spanking of kids. Spanking of consenting adults, you go right ahead and let your freak flag fly.
Only because we’re both adults and sexually is the only context (unless we have children of our own to spank) for corporal punishment that applies to us.
When I got a spanking as a child, there was not a boner to be found… I was all about tearful pleas and vague promises to “be good”.
But people do change the diapers of adults who need it. Plenty of old people or disabled adults need help going to the bathroom.
I’m not saying that people who spank their kids are doing it for sexual reasons. I’m just saying that spanking has a rather sexual connotation in our society, and it skeeves me out that it’s done to children by their parents.
But that is your perception and your mental issue, not that of just about anyone else.
I’ve heard lots of reasons over time why spanking should not be used as a means of disciplining children, but your 'too sexualized" argument is a new one for me. I don’t know if you have ever spanked a child, but I am here to tell you it’s normally not a sexual experience in any way, shape, or form for either the spanker or spankee. The attitudes immediately surrounding delivering or receiving a real life spanking to a child are about as far away from bringing the sexy as any scenario I can imagine.
That you can somehow conflate a real world disciplinary kid spanking and the intense emotions dealt with in that context to a sexualized adult role play spanking tells me you have zero experience in delivering a real world spanking to a child.
This reminds me of the thread where folks were arguing that a parent kissing their kids was creepy. We spank consenting adults in sexual situations because we spank children, not the other way around.
My personal principles:
If a small child is in imminent danger (about to touch a hot stove or push a fork into an electrical outlet, for example) there is nothing wrong with giving the dear little hand a sharp slap and an equally sharp “NO!” especially if it isn’t the first time.
Never threaten an action you will not carry out. Never fail to carry out an action you’ve given reasonable notice of.
Never give in to temper tantrums. Never, ever. If a child is of the age of reason, explain that no, you’re not only not getting “X” today, you’re not getting it any time tomorrow either, because of your behavior.
Beatings are never OK.
Corporal punishment except as a very last resort is a bad thing and should not be administered in schools.
Violence should only ever be used if there’s no other option, which basically leaves self defense or defense of another, neither of which applies to a child, at least one young enough to be pulled off another child if they are seriously fighting.
Short anecdote - my father would occasionally hit me as a child, and continued to occasionally do so, or threaten to do so as an adult. I finally stood up to him a few years ago, and he realised I could and would have kicked the shit out of him if he’d continued. We’ve not spoken since, and I frankly would be entirely content if this situation continued, if it were possible to have any sort of relationship with the rest of my family.
Do not use violence unless you are prepared to deal with the consequences, which may well be lifelong.
Depends both on the kid, and the parent doing it.
My mom was a big spanker (usually used an implement, not her hand, which hurt us more and her less), and also regularly slapped our faces and flicked our mouths (hard enough to cause swelling) anytime we talked back, etc. Being hit made me angry, and rebellious. I didn’t mind the pain and I never cried (and was often punished further for having a ‘frozen face’ and not responding appropriately to being hit or otherwise punished). However, being hit made my gentle littlest sister scared, embarrassed, and she would get very upset and cry for a long time every time it happened. I always re-offended on ‘spankable’ offenses, but my sister was highly motivated not to. Effective-enough strategy for her, ineffective for me.
Damn sad and wrong, either way. Thinking back makes me feel a little ill. I can’t imagine doing what my mom did to us to any other human being, no matter how obnoxious. And it’s not like she injured us (beyond a swollen lip now and then), but it was still traumatic and inappropriate. To this day I flinch whenever she makes a quick movement (growing up, that meant she was going to slap your face).
I do consider my mom emotionally and physically abusive. When she hit us it was always when she was very angry, which is not healthy at all. If you use corporal punishment, the parent shouldn’t be enraged when doing so.
I do not plan on using physical punishment with my future kids. I mean I wouldn’t get too down on myself if I lost my cool and smacked their hand or butt in certain circumstances, but using hitting/threats of physical pain in order to get people to do what you want is just not a positive strategy for human interaction, especially for people as impressionable and naturally physical, as children. I know my mom hitting me had a big negative effect on me and IMO made me a much more violent child than I might have been. Thankfully, once I reached an age where I had more impulse control and understanding of the consequences of my actions I realized how WRONG it was to hit people and make them feel like my mom made me feel, and I’m utterly disgusted at the way I used to act (mostly, I was physically abusive towards my much-younger sisters, who I was often placed in charge of). I also do not naturally have much of a temper, thank goodness.
I’m glad corporal punishment has fallen out of favor, although I’m not so glad that many parents these days don’t seem to be disciplining their kids much, or at all, now that it’s not just a matter of slapping them.
I’ve often said I don’t think it should be completely crossed off the list, but as someone else said, it should be memorable and rare. And no, I don’t think teachers should have a right to lay their hands on your kids. Parents putatively love their kids, so they spank them to teach them right from wrong. The teachers have no reason to love your kids. And it shouldn’t be done in anger, either. What that teaches the kid is that the parent has no control over their emotions - a terrifying idea for a child.
Drawing blood is abuse, monstro, at least I firmly believe. Beating a nine year old kid until she is laying on the floor is abuse.
My family had another way when I got past spanking age - pinching, which was far more humiliating I find. When you’re fifteen years old and you got pinched so hard that they left marks it didn’t really make a difference in your behavior…you are in a rebellious phase anyway. Especially if it was for stupid reasons.
Off-topic slightly…
The beating i remember most vividly involves high-heeled shoes. It’s still humiliating to think about, and terrifying, too…
I think that it’s interesting that most of the “no spanking” folks are not parents. It does make a difference.
I was rarely spanked, but I was one of those kids who wilted at a harsh look or word. On the other hand, my little brother was spanked more frequently, but he didn’t give a damn if he was spanked or scolded or whatever. He’d just grin and go right back to what he was doing.
The thing is, some kids just don’t take verbal warnings seriously. A swat on the butt is the only way to convince them that yes, you DO mean it when you tell them not to squirm away and run into the street.
The best punishments are those that are swift and certain. That is, if you tell a kid that you’re gonna leave him/her in the store, you’d better be prepared to at least appear to carry out the threat. If you tell a kid that s/he’s going to get a spanking when you get home, that’s not swift, and if it doesn’t happen sometimes, it’s not certain, either. If you tell a kid that s/he can either walk out of the store, or get pulled out, and you follow this up with pulling the kid along, then that’s swift and certain.
Personally, I regarded spankings as the last resort. I did spank my daughter on a few rare occasions. She left our backyard once and walked across a busy highway when she was old enough to know better. There was a McDonald’s across that highway, and she wanted to go to the play area. She got a few swats on her butt, AND she got grounded from McD’s for a week or so. Another time, I had told her that she couldn’t do something. I was cooking dinner, and I heard her go into the living room and ask her daddy if she could do it. So I grabbed a wooden spoon and swatted her once on her jeans clad butt. She was a tween at the time. She was shocked that I did this, but I had made my point. She was NOT to try to play her parents against each other.
Despite not spanking, I DID discipline my child on a consistent basis. She got grounded from TV, for instance, or she had other privileges taken away. But she got disciplined swiftly and surely, I didn’t make idle threats.