It’s funny but ground work in martial arts is almost non-existant in ancient times, when the arts were actually MARTIAL arts, as in used to kill your opponent, not for sport and competition.
Looking back at European medieval combat masters, they never mention any sort of ground work (except that which is necessary to get the heck back up). Neither do the Samurai martial arts.
Judo doesn’t appear in it’s current sport form until the different schools stopped using the arts in actual combat to the death, and began competing for sport.
Of course a knight with a longsword is not exactly a typical sight now a days so this type of combat is not all that relevant today.
Yes, knowing how to fall is a highly useful skill.
Oh, and despite occasional bar-crawls, I haven’t been in a fistfight since I was 11. I was mugged once, but further martial arts training would have only allowed me to deliver my wallet a little faster. Ah well, I can still dream.
When I was about 21 I was robbed by a guy who stuck a sawed off shotgun in my gut and demanded I lay on the ground and give him my wallet.
I laid on the ground with my hands behind my head after placing my wallet on the ground beside me. It was there that I perfected the perfect martial art. I consentrated every fibre of my being on mastering the chamelion’s technique of looking exactly like the carpet I was lying on, pattern and all.
It must have worked, because he took my money and left.
Scared me juiceless. Sometimes no martial art will work.
Well, I haven’t gotten in a fight since I started training, which is good, but I have to say, after having talked with a few Amateur Boxers that, if I had to fight one, my first move would be to tackle them and do my best to get them on the ground. There, I can use techniques and “grapples” that I learned in Kuk Sool Won and am learning again in Hapkido.
As for Krav Maga… be careful, if you decide to train. I know a man (idiot) who is paying $112 a month to train in Krav Maga, and I know for a fact that the person is a Novice Martial Artist who went away for a 3 week training camp, and came back “Certified” in Krav Maga. It’s a trendy art… avoid the traps of McDojos.
Given the choice, I’d fight a boxer at kicking range or on the floor, but that’s a match fight. Self Defence against a guy who boxes, I’d still be trying to punch him.
I took Judo in high school just because I heard the word more often then karate in those days. I think karate would have been better for me. Getting up close to an opponent just doesnt suit my personality but a lot depends on positioning and environment.
There is a cool judo move where you grab your opponent shoulders put you foot in his stomache and let your other foot slide between his legs. You fall on your back and your weight pulls your oponent over you. Push up with your foot in his stomach and he flies over your head. I always wanted to filp somebody down sme stairs that way. LOL!
I want to make doubly clear: In the context of what “learned fighting technique works best?”, wrestling works very well. If you don’t know a technique, then you’re an idiot if you use it.
Being on the ground is a definite plus if you know what to do on the ground. It’s a bad idea if you don’t know what to do on the ground. Wrestlers know what to do. They can cause serious damage without breaking the skin on their knuckles.
Boxers are just plain horrible fighters against wrestlers. My gosh, I saw one once stand in a fight against a wrestler with his back to a concrete pillar. What an idiot.
I tried ju-jitsu for a while. The good thing about it is that is covers throws, grappling and locks and to a lesser extent punches and kicks. I would highly recommend this as a martial art to learn if you expect to be the victim of a mugging attempt. I understand judo covers all the groundwork, but as many of the posters here have said, it means little if you’re up against a kickboxer. Ju-jitsu seems to cover the lot.
Suppose your attacker has a knife? If this is the case, run away, no question. if you want to beat someone who has a knife, use a tanbo. a foot long stick of oak or the equivalent (police truncheon?) will always beat a knife in the right hands.
unarmed
The best advice i can give is to break your attackers leg with a quick kick to the kneecap. I understand it only takes about 20 (pounds or kilos) of pressure to do this and they won’t usually be prepared unless trained in a martial art.
This brings me to my last point. I’m short and thin and unless i put 12 years into ju-jitsu, i’m going to get thrown about like a sack of crap in the meantime. For anyone in my position, i’d recommend a defensive art like Pencak Silat. It’s suitable for short people since it emphasises low combat stances, very little locking (busting arms and legs instead) which is easy enough to accomplish with focus and luck and it also teaches weapon use such as staves (Jo and Bo) and tanbo.
Forgot to add the most useful aspect of Ju-Jitsu i’ve found to date is the strong emphasis on rolling techniques. I’d recommend learning how to fall safely to anyone, for sport, motorcycle accidents, streetfighting and tripping down a flight of stairs.
All of the claims i’ve made above were passed on to me by my instructors, including Shihan Jan De Jong, probably the most dangerous 90 year old man on the planet.
Just heard saddam was captured. Want to make some cash? start exporting ak47 rounds to iraq.
Wouldn’t this depend on whether or not the persons knee was bent? Thats one of the things I’ve been taught (7 years TKD): you never, ever, ever fight with your knees straightened. Keeping your knees bent gives you more speed to move around, better balance, etc.
I’ve also been taught that the best self-defense techniques are being able to take a blow, and then being able to run like hell. The guy who jumps you on the street may well be armed, even if you don’t know it.
I used to practise Jui Jitsu at uni with a mate of mine. I don’t think it would have done me much good in a mugging or bar fight because I was so used to practising not hurting my sparring partner. Being taught to dodge or block someone punching me in the face is probably the best thing I could have learnt from it. For me, in a fight RUN! :eek:
Kick to the kneecap, in theory pretty damn effective - but quite hard to target correctly in a full on adrenaline fuelled confrontation. Also, you have to have some idea of where the target is, qhich requires looking at it - looking down at an attackers legs probably not a safe bet. A low sweeping kick to the legs is easier and provides oppourtunity for follow up.
ftg I respect the grappling arts are very effective. The way you speak implies you have no respect for the striking arts by comparison, which irks me a little because they do command a lot of respect, and that’s not just my opinion, thats simply because of their widespread use in occupations in which violent confrontation is part of the day-to-day grind.
Grapplers win mixed martial arts contests - watch UFC, Pride etc and its pretty obvious. However, this is a one on one, in the ring with rules. Lots of grappling techniques are severely compromised when the person you’re grappling bites your arm/ear/nose! However, I have stressed throughout the thread (and others with me) that grappling is an important skill because if you can’t finish a fight with a few good punches, its going to the grapple.
As for the anecdote about the boxer fighting the wrestler with his back against a pillar, yes I agree that’s daft. This shouldn’t reflect on boxing but on the fool fighting with his back against a pillar.
Having rambled on about this art is better than that art etc. I think that its important to stress a couple of things:
Its not the art, its the practitioner. If you’re a good fighter, train hard, you’re gonna make most things work. Find an art that suits you and you’ll be pretty ok.
Martial arts are not the same thing as self defence. A lot of what you learn isn’t useful or practical for self defence. The most important part of my training (don’t know if I mentioned this but I’m a self defence instructor as well as a martial arts instructor) is the understanding of the effects of fear and adrenaline in a violent confrontation. You can have the best kicking/boxing/grappling skills in the world but if you can’t handle the adrenal dump that goes with ‘real life’ fighting, you simply won’t be able to execute the techniques - you’ll be too busy filling your knickers.
I would post something but green_dragon has it all covered. Good job green_dragon! Nice to see somebody else who has a keen understanding of self defense.
Btw, don’t expect much. People want to believe what they want to believe. People insist that there is a technical answer to self defense. People insist in that having a black belt is some magical talisman that will protect them from all harm. People insist that somehow unrealistic training in the dojo will somehow transfer to the reality on the street.
Yep. My old judo instructor tested this on cadavers when he was in graduate school. The result was that it takes a lot of force to break a bent knee and that one is better off thinking of something else to practice.
Anyone catch the “Extreme Martial Arts” special on the Discovery channel (I think?).
Why do they even call it “martial arts” at that point? It’s all flash and aport and no actual martial merit what so ever.
I watched one girl working with a chinese straight sword, and another guy with a Katana doing all sorts of weird body movements and twirling around. Looked very nice and flashy, somethign I’d expect to see in an Anime flick.
Granted I don’t know much about armed easter martial arts, but what I do know about European Medieval martial arts made laugh at their theatrics. None of the displayed techniques would be of ANY use in combat.
I did see “Extreme Martial Arts”. I was unimpressed, but not unsurprised. The most impressive section was the breaking section. Some the facts were truly laughable. How anybody can justify stating that two swords would be slower to counterattack than one if truly laughable… that’s what the second weapon is for. You tie up with the first weapon and kill with the second. Other “facts” were laughable but that one really stuck out in my mind. Don’t get me wrong those guys were very very talented, and they are in my opinion martial artists, they may not be fighters, but so what. The day of the martial arts = warrior are long since passed and no longer really relevent, the main thing is not to have any illusions about what you are doing and learning.
Hi Tomcat! Yes, I’m back. No really good books lately, well, other than mine, but it hasn’t been published yet as I’m still shopping it around. The title is “Lies My Sensei Told Me”. So far, nothing but rejection notices. Oh well. C’est la vie, eh?
