Vero, you saving for a house is not your parents problem. If they have no problem with you living with them, then fine. If they develop a problem all of sudden you have to get out. And even if they allow you to live there you have to pay rent. If they say no then you have to insist, and if they still say no you have to save that money to take care of them someday if needed. If your parents are fine with your plan to put your savings into a house, presumably one they could come live in themselves if necessary that would be fine. But why are you asking us? Why aren’t you asking your parents? If you have to justify it to them somehow then you are doing the wrong thing. You are an adult, they aren’t obligated to support you anymore.
ETA: And moving back in with them because they miss you isn’t a very good reason. Grow up.
You should offer market rent (regardless of the actual expenses), a share of utilities and food, and of course a major portion of the housework and food purchasing/preparation, including 100% of your personal housework such as laundry, non-family meals, bathroom cleanup, etc. If they want less, they will ask for less. But if you are an adult with income, asking to pull less than your full weight is just plain greedy. You aren’t a kid anymore, and it’s no longer their job to provide you with food and free rent.
It’s not a great thing for dating. The obvious problem is logistics. Nobody wants to sleep over with the 'rents, and nobody always wants to have to hang out at their place (or, even worse, their own parent’s house). But the bigger problem is that it implies that you expect to be parented, and that’s a pretty big turn off to women. Ladies like to see some proof that you are capable of being a fully functional adult. Nobody wants to have to be a mother to their husband.
That said, money is nice. But there is more to life than money, and sometimes doing the right thing in one area puts you behind in other areas. Given that you have a good job and plenty of money, I think it’d be good for your personal development to get out there and build some independence, even if it means a little less in savings. Independence brings new ways of thinking, and that brings all kinds of unexpected rewards. You sound like a very cautious dude. That can be a good thing, but it’s good to push your boundaries a bit, too. And make sure you aren’t using “responsibility” as an excuse for not expanding your comfort zone.
“Here” is Toronto/Vancouver in Canada and to a lesser extent Montreal/Calgary. I was talking about net salary not gross. Gross here isn’t very high either $40k-60k usually. Even though I’m not in a skilled business field and study at a top Canadian university, I can only expect about $50-55k or so before $10+k or so in taxes. That’s even if you can get a job. Youth unemployment here is 16% despite the oil/mining/agriculture boom in Canada. Houses in my parent’s middle-class neighborhood, which is in the “inner suburbs”, cost $900k and up, $700k is for a house in a decent neighborhood in a less desirable part of town. For $300k here, you would get a house next to a meth lab… Even houses in Jane and Finch, Toronto’s closest thing to an American ghetto, are like $400k. Are wages in America and property really that high and low respectively? You’re making me want to move.
Maybe you could check out houses that you can afford? Most folks don’t go for the 700K model right out of the gate. Have you ever considered the fact that when most people are starting out they have to adjust their lifestyle to match their income? You’ll have to work up to the really nice stuff.
If you’re really worried about expenses, rent an apartment with roommates. One or two will cut your expenses drastically and, though it’s not ideal either, it’s much less humiliating than moving back in with your parents.
I’ve worked every summer since I was 16 and often part-time after that. At minimum wage here, that’s about $6-8k per year. Part-time nets me another $3k or so. I also invest in stocks and typically make at least $3k a year, which more than covers food, but have made more on good years. University for me is only $6k a year after scholarships and grants and rent is another $6k as I have a roommate.
Okay, so it’s seems established that I should pay some of the expenses or rent. I don’t “freeload” food as I buy my own stuff to cook usually. In any case, should I pay a portion or all of the expenses ($1k/month) or market rent ($2k/month for the whole place or $1.3k for my room)? If I do pay market rent, then it will be me effectively subsidizing my parents. And if it’s market rent on the whole place, I would have negative savings…
Wages aren’t that high here. We just expect to have to work our way up the standard of living our parents have, just like they did. A 400K house is nothing like a ghetto. I lived in a crummy apartment shared with 4 other people to get out on my own, and ate crap until I worked my way up the chain and could afford better. And both my kids now live on their own making less money than you are talking about. They’re always welcome back here if they are in need, but aside from the time you need to find a job, you are not in need. And even then with money in the bank you are not really in need now either.
So maybe your first apartment won’t be quite as nice as you’re used to, or be in quite as nice a part of town. Figure out what you can afford on your own, and settle for it.
If your parents are as enthusiastic as you claim about having you back, this is your chance. Go for broke. Go out there and DO something, knowing that if you accidentally screw that $50,000 away in a crazy business venture you have your parents to fall back on and help you get back up. Your situation is far more than a lot of people have.
And yes, moving out responsibly may in fact mean working a $15 an hour job for a 1BR that costs $1250 a month, knowing that in 3 years you’ll have worked your way up the ladder and you have a cushion to save with, or you’ll have to move and try your luck elsewhere in a different job market.
You’re looking to buy a house (a very expensive house!) and stick yourself in one geographic position when at this point of your life you need to be able to move around. All while staying at home as a momma’s boy with no concept of how to live in a normally priced house or apartment in a normal neighborhood rather than an expensive big-city suburb. Not a grand idea.
The very fact that all you’re worried about living in a $300K house that’s next-door to a meth house indicates that you are very sheltered and need to experience life away from parents. If you’re like the average person, eventually you’re going to marry and have children and major responsibiities. The only good thing about your 20s is that you can be wild and free. You need to take care of yourself for awhile, and you won’t do that by living rent-free under your parents’ roof.
If you were broke and/or disabled, it wouldn’t be embarrassing for you to come here and ask whether you should live at home. But you aren’t broke or disabled. You’ve got plenty of money and the competence/capacity to live on your own. You can well afford a studio apartment in a decent, safe neighborhood. You just don’t want to.
What you are asking is would it be alright for you to be a leech. No, it’s not alright.
You COULD confidently live by yourself if you were sure that you could progress through the ranks like the previous generations, but as discussed in this thread "The first generation to be poorer than the one that preceded it" - In My Humble Opinion - Straight Dope Message Board, previous generations just didn’t experience the globalization pressures that millennials do. I have engineering friends who have moved out and planned that their income would rise only to get laid off several years later with no savings! I also know accountants who found themselves laid off instead of making $80k+ per year shortly after getting their CPA. Even if I could afford $15k with my savings, there’s the problem that rents are artificially low right now in Canada due to oversupply and record low interest rates. The cheapest I could get is still $12k per year and my safety is worth more than $3k.
There’s a reason for the “Matthew Effect”, those who accumulate capital will get ever richer while those blinded by pride will mostly likely be stuck in mediocrity. I have made over 10% stock returns every year for the past 7 years and have even made over 30% on years like this one. For every $10k that I’m paying now in rent, the opportunity cost would be at least $26k a decade later. Moving out is fiscally irresponsible given the choices available.
Can we go back to the main point of this thread? What societal/personal repercussions are there for moving back in and what is the norm compensation to the parents (excluding food and utilities as they are obvious)?
I…ummmm… Wow.
I am trying to figure out where your parent’s failure lies. In the fact that you don’t want to move out or the fact that they will allow you to move back in even though you have the funds to do otherwise.
My son asked me last night to help him with his car insurance while he goes for his MBA and I advised him that he is a grown up and needs to figure it out. He made his mistakes as a child and I helped him out of many of them but he is now an adult and I expect him to act like it. There is no way I would let him move back in so he could live off of me and save for a house. My job is done.
Reading comprehension is a vital skill. I started working when I was 16 and barely used any money… I didn’t move out for university until I was 18. That’s over $20k already. I also said at least $3k on stocks. The average is probably $7k as some years have been awesome (think after the financial crisis), and I started investing when I was 16. This year, with the Dow Jones going up 26%, I’ve made well over $10k on investments. First-year university was also $3k.
I think you may want to call up your college and ask for your money back on all your math classes.
So, earlier in post #1, you claimed you’d be spending $15k/year in rent on $30k/year salary. But in that very same post, you claim an apartment with utilities, etc, is $1k/month. That’s $12k/year, not $15k.
Then, in the quoted part, you think you’re only going to net $30k, but then claim you can make $50k gross, with $10k in taxes… that’s $40k, not $30k. You aren’t paying half your salary in rent, you’re paying closer to a quarter. Which would be just about right.
And if you think a $400k house is going to have meth problems in Toronto, well…
I agree with all of the above. I think you’ve been very sheltered and had a good life ($50k in the bank! I was working for most of a decade before I had that). Now you’re afraid you’ll have to live like the rest of us plebs. Most of us get that out of the way in college, so I don’t know why you’re so surprised by it. I’m not saying you need to live in a complex where most of the windows have been shot out - just probably not as nice a place as where your parents have, and eventually you’ll work your way up to what you want.
In short, the reason it’s embarrassing is that it’s supposed to be. You’re an adult, you should start acting like one, and mooching off your parents unless the sky is falling is not being a very good excuse for a son.
